ET80 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 8 hours ago, jrry32 said: ET, you don't need to engage in the intellectually dishonest arguments. Watt's play more than speaks for itself. The Texans' jump from mediocre to contender wasn't any more due to Watt than the Rams' jump was due to Donald. The Texans went from a terrible defense the year before Watt to a top 5 defense in his rookie year. Now, I know you're eager to credit that to Watt, but you conveniently ignore the fact that the Texans went from Frank Bush to Wade Phillips at DC. Watt was very good as a rookie, but he was not a transcendent player that year. Wade managed to make use of all the talent on that defense and spur guys like Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed, and Antonio Smith to career years. They won 10 games and 12 games in Wade's first two years. In the third year, the entire team collapsed, which resulted in Wade and Kubiak being fired. However, the Texans landed another great DC in Romeo Crennel, but even with Crennel, they didn't have another 10+ win season for four years (last year). And by that point, Watt was no longer a transcendent player. It's just plain dishonest to chalk the Rams' improvement totally up to coaching and not do so with the Texans. Watt and Donald both played big roles in the Rams and Texans' becoming contenders. But the biggest roles in that came from their respective coaching staffs. Had Watt played under Frank Bush instead of Wade Phillips, there's no way the Texans make that sort of jump. Fair - but you have to acknowledge the lunacy of the statement I was quoting. It was ghoulish overkill on my end, and the Texans D took the turn it did due to Wade (if you're looking for a single player, it's probably CB Jonathan Joseph if we're being honest). But, when someone tries to say "Watt isn't as good as his numbers indicate because the Texans a were never a contender" well... that's just insane. That first playoff run was Watt's coming out party, he had 3.5 sacks and arguably one of the most epic pick sixes in Texans history, perhaps the biggest play in franchise history. That 2012 season - the best season in Texans history to date - Watt was undoubtedly the best player on the Texans, despite career type years from Andre Johnson and Arian Foster. The offense was always known for putting you points, it was the rise of the defense that got the Texans going, and Watt is the biggest component of that turnaround. As others have stated, the numbers probably don't do him justice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 7 hours ago, ET80 said: Fair - but you have to acknowledge the lunacy of the statement I was quoting. It was ghoulish overkill on my end, and the Texans D took the turn it did due to Wade (if you're looking for a single player, it's probably CB Jonathan Joseph if we're being honest). But, when someone tries to say "Watt isn't as good as his numbers indicate because the Texans a were never a contender" well... that's just insane. That first playoff run was Watt's coming out party, he had 3.5 sacks and arguably one of the most epic pick sixes in Texans history, perhaps the biggest play in franchise history. That 2012 season - the best season in Texans history to date - Watt was undoubtedly the best player on the Texans, despite career type years from Andre Johnson and Arian Foster. The offense was always known for putting you points, it was the rise of the defense that got the Texans going, and Watt is the biggest component of that turnaround. As others have stated, the numbers probably don't do him justice. Yes, I don't agree with my fellow Rams fan. Like Donald, the numbers will never do Watt justice. Both guys fundamentally altered how the opposition played their defenses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 2 hours ago, jrry32 said: Yes, I don't agree with my fellow Rams fan. Like Donald, the numbers will never do Watt justice. Both guys fundamentally altered how the opposition played their defenses. And I can buy into this. I'm just satisfied I have one of these two beasts on my team, they're fun to watch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 we’re comparing probably the two most transcendent interior DL players of the last decade, both surefire HOF players. who honestly cares which one of them is better, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 1 hour ago, -Hope- said: we’re comparing probably the two most transcendent interior DL players of the last decade, both surefire HOF players. who honestly cares which one of them is better, lol It was Watt. Maybe Donald changes that in the coming years, but right now, it's Watt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 On 5/5/2019 at 9:08 PM, -Hope- said: we’re comparing probably the two most transcendent interior DL players of the last decade, both surefire HOF players. who honestly cares which one of them is better, lol It's the internet. What would we do if we didn't argue about things like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 (edited) On 5/3/2019 at 4:20 PM, FrantikRam said: That's fair. I never viewed Watt as good as his stats - during his career they really haven't been a contender. Most of that is on the offense I suppose, but it's weird to me to have a player be "transcendent" but year in and year out not be a serious contender. Someone go call Darrelle Revis, Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, Tony Gonzalez, and Larry Fitzgerald and tell them that they weren’t transcendent players. Edited May 7, 2019 by Yin-Yang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 12 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Someone go call Darrelle Revis, Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, Tony Gonzalez, and Larry Fitzgerald and tell them that they weren’t transcendent players. Revis?? Joe Thomas? I don't think they were tbh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 2 hours ago, El ramster said: Revis?? Joe Thomas? I don't think they were tbh.. I suppose it’s hard to be transcendent as an offensive linemen. Revis certainly was IMO, but perhaps he didn’t have the longevity that’d make some comfortable labeling him as such. Point remains, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: I suppose it’s hard to be transcendent as an offensive linemen. Revis certainly was IMO, but perhaps he didn’t have the longevity that’d make some comfortable labeling him as such. Point remains, though. Nah. Revis wasn’t. Because what he got away with any CB would have been that elite. Revis was allowed to get away with murder. No other player in the NFL was allowed that much contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 54 minutes ago, El ramster said: Nah. Revis wasn’t. Because what he got away with any CB would have been that elite. Revis was allowed to get away with murder. No other player in the NFL was allowed that much contact. Yes, he was. No one had his combo of physicality, catch-up speed, route recognition, footwork, and ability to track/play the ball in the air. Attributing his success to preferential treatment from referees is BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 10 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Yes, he was. No one had his combo of physicality, catch-up speed, route recognition, footwork, and ability to track/play the ball in the air. Attributing his success to preferential treatment from referees is BS. either way he wasn't a transcendent player. You have Dion Sanders.. Night Train Lane.. Mel Blount.. Charles Woodson.. Rod Woodson.. Champ Bailey.. Ty Law(who was a game changer in the post season).. Darrell Green.. I just don't see Revis in that company.. All those guys above changed the game.. Same with Joe Thomas.. When you have guys like Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden and Walter Jones.. Heavy hitters super bowl caliber players.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 On 5/7/2019 at 5:22 AM, ET80 said: It's the internet. What would we do if we didn't argue about things like this? One of these days you're going to say Donald is better and i'm going to enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, El ramster said: One of these days you're going to say Donald is better and i'm going to enjoy it. You might have grown up and won't care by then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 23 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said: You might have grown up and won't care by then psshhhhh this guy.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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