The greatness of Saquon Barkley

[VanS]

27 minutes ago, m haynes said:

K Mack, baby!

Agree.  Mack is a top 3 player.  I would say nobody has played at a higher level this year than Donald, Mack, and Barkley.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, VanS said:

I think the Browns supporting cast is great.  I liked most of the players they've drafted the last 2 years.  Especially on offense.  Everyone knows how high I was on Antonio Callaway.   Nick Chubb was always gonna be a very good NFL RB.  I compared him to Jonathan Stewart coming out of college.  Jarvis Landry is a pro-bowl caliber WR.  David Njoku is incredibly talented and a TE I was high on before the 2017 draft.  And that o-line has been performing at a higher level than most anticipated after Joe Thomas.

Baker Mayfield has benefited from a really good supporting cast on offense. 

 

One dude on the entire offense has made a Pro Bowl ever in their career, and that was Landry when he played for another team.

If you think the supporting cast is elevating Mayfield the way Dallas’s did for Dak, you clearly haven’t watched a Browns game all season.

[GSUeagles14]

2 minutes ago, VanS said:

I think the Browns supporting cast is great.  I liked most of the players they've drafted the last 2 years.  Especially on offense.  Everyone knows how high I was on Antonio Callaway.   Nick Chubb was always gonna be a very good NFL RB.  I compared him to Jonathan Stewart coming out of college.  Jarvis Landry is a pro-bowl caliber WR.  David Njoku is incredibly talented and a TE I was high on before the 2017 draft.  And that o-line has been performing at a higher level than most anticipated after Joe Thomas.

Baker Mayfield has benefited from a really good supporting cast on offense. 

 

landrys a limited wr whose really good at what he does but lacking in a lot of areas, calloway has been god awful, easily one of the worst wrs in the league, chubb has been very good and njoku is talented but that hasnt manifested to production quite yet. He has an average supporting cast..... 

[11sanchez11]

40 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Gurley, Kamara, Hunt, Bell, Elliott, Johnson and the best RB of this generation Adrian Peterson have a combined 0 SB rings.

You know who the best 3 RBs were on the last 3 super bowl winners? Corey Clement, James White and CJ Anderson. The last time the Giants won the Superbowl their RB was Ahmad Bradshaw.

You can make this argument about any position except QB. 

Watt, Joe Thomas, Patrick Peterson, Mack, Donald, etc. etc. None of them have won anything. But that only matters if you are a RB for some reason. 

[11sanchez11]

42 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Also, given how well other young RBs like Conner (3rd), Chubb (2nd) and Lindsay (UDFA) are doing at a cheaper cost for similar impact to their teama-- it just makes spending the #2 overall pick on a RB no matter how good look bad especially given the need for a QB.

Are there not other young, cheap players at other positions that play well?

I feel like most arguments people make why RBs don't matter apply to every other position except for QB. But people don't say they aren't valuable/don't matter.

[mtmmike]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

One dude on the entire offense has made a Pro Bowl ever in their career, and that was Landry when he played for another team.

If you think the supporting cast is elevating Mayfield the way Dallas’s did for Dak, you clearly haven’t watched a Browns game all season.

Thank you he still presents no argument why if he is so good that his giants did not improve as much as when Zeke got to the Cowboys if bell was playing and hunt was not suspended he would be the 5th best back in the nfl

[AkronsWitness]

58 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

You can make this argument about any position except QB. 

Watt, Joe Thomas, Patrick Peterson, Mack, Donald, etc. etc. None of them have won anything. But that only matters if you are a RB for some reason. 

Right but I was referring to the draft position he was taken at #2. Especially given the Giants circumstance of needing a QB post Eli in a QB heavy draft. I just didn't understand the pick at the time and I still dont despite Barkley being great. The Giants we're in prime position to get their QBOTF and passed.

They could have fastracked their rebuild with Darnold + Chubb/Freeman but chose Barkley and a 5/6 win season while still having no QB.

 

 

[jrry32]

2 hours ago, ET80 said:

Ok, I'll humor you.

Barkley is currently 3rd in TYFS (1,809) behind Zeke and Gurley, the top two guys coming into last season, the two guys that have a claim on that #1 spot.

Here, I said it earlier:

Reality is, I take Barkley over both; Gurley is a VERY close 2nd, but as @jrry32 and I have discussed before, Gurley doesn't really have as many explosive plays. This isn't saying he isn't explosive - he is - but Gurley's strength is consistency. You won't see many 50+ yard runs, but you'll see a ton of 5-6-7 yard gains, and barely any negative plays. Consistency like this is incredibly underrated; It's not sexy, won't make the YouTubes but it's an important part of a winning formula. Barkley lacks that consistency, but his penchant for hitting a home run on a high rate of touches makes up for that, IMO.

Zeke is a different story - he's got that big play ability, he's consistent too. But... he's one bad weekend away from a year long suspension. Like it or not, you have to factor this into it. (Same sort of thing can be said about Le'Veon Bell, actually). With Barkley, you have absolutely NO concern in this respect. He's a future OPOY, and probably a future Walter Payton Man of the Year award winner. You'll have no off the field issues with Barkley, he's a workout junkie who eats, sleeps and breathes football.

So, there's my stance...

...and before you say it, yes. I know it's a good post.

Yeah, that's a bad call. Zeke and Gurley are better HBs right now. Both are elite pass protectors. Barkley is a liability there. People underestimate how important that is in today's NFL. 

[ET80]

3 hours ago, pnies20 said:

I think this is more about rookie of the year for Baker fans. I'm a gigantic Barkley homer (ask @LETSGOBROWNIES) but it can't be overstated what it takes to bring the Browns out of the basement. Baker is literally the only man on earth that has been able to do it. If we win out this year and don't even make the playoffs, they may erect a statue of him outside city hall.

I haven't discounted the Baker pick. He's the absolute right pick at #1, in every possible way - he has the best persona for this team, he's been the underdog since his freshman year and he brings that proverbial chip on his shoulder to this entire organization.

Cleveland and Baker are a perfect pairing. 

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

Yeah, that's a bad call. Zeke and Gurley are better HBs right now. Both are elite pass protectors. Barkley is a liability there. People underestimate how important that is in today's NFL. 

Barkley has 600+ yards receiving over 14 games, only behind Christian McCaffrey at RB. If an OC is keeping him in to pass protect, he needs to be fired. Into the sun.

[VanS]

3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

One dude on the entire offense has made a Pro Bowl ever in their career, and that was Landry when he played for another team.

If you think the supporting cast is elevating Mayfield the way Dallas’s did for Dak, you clearly haven’t watched a Browns game all season.

I don't think the supporting cast is elevating him as much as the 2016 Cowboys did Dak.  But then again Dak had significantly more success in 2016 both individually and team wise than Mayfield this year.

Also the Browns supporting cast is super young.  They're essentially all rookies and second year players.  It makes sense that the only Pro Bowler in the group is the veteran Landry.

In a few years it wouldn't surprise me to see Antonio Callaway, Nick Chubb, and David Njoku all be Pro Bowlers.

[Thomas5737]

3 hours ago, VanS said:

I've learned from experience to not overreact to a rookie QB being either really good or really bad.  I'll stick with my pre-draft evaluation until he puts together several good or bad seasons before I change my opinion.  My pre-draft evaluation of Baker Mayfield was that he was another Rex Grossman.  We'll see if that comp pans out over the long term.

I agree with your method. That's why I don't want to hear anything from anybody about me being wrong about Johnny Manziel. Once 2025 rolls around I'll listen, until then I'm sticking with my predraft analysis.

[Thomas5737]

7 minutes ago, VanS said:

I don't think the supporting cast is elevating him as much as the 2016 Cowboys did Dak.  But then again Dak had significantly more success in 2016 both individually and team wise than Mayfield this year.

Also the Browns supporting cast is super young.  They're essentially all rookies and second year players.  It makes sense that the only Pro Bowler in the group is the veteran Landry.

In a few years it wouldn't surprise me to see Antonio Callaway, Nick Chubb, and David Njoku all be Pro Bowlers.

Imagine if they had Josh Allen as their QB, they would probably be there this year.

 

[VanS]

41 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Imagine if they had Josh Allen as their QB, they would probably be there this year.

 

No.  Josh Allen is a work in progress.  I just see him fufilling his incredible potential in the future.  Baker has played very well for the Browns.  I just question if he can continue to improve on what we've seen or if this is simply the best he can be and if he'll plateau for the rest of his career.

Players improve or decline from year to year.  I simply have faith in Josh Allen continuing to improve. 

[VanS]

53 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I agree with your method. That's why I don't want to hear anything from anybody about me being wrong about Johnny Manziel. Once 2025 rolls around I'll listen, until then I'm sticking with my predraft analysis.

I know you're trying to be faceitious but that's not what I meant.  I'm simply telling you that one season doesn't move me anymore.   Dak Prescott taught me that lesson.  Cause after 2016 I was shocked by how badly I missed on him.  Then in 2017 he started looking like the guy I thought he would be.  And now in 2018 he's exactly what I thought his best case scenario was.  Average to below average NFL starter.

I have Baker rated roughly the same.  Maybe slightly lower.  I know Rex Grossman isn't exactly the most flaterring comp but he did make it to one Super Bowl and the size/arm talents do match.  We'll see if he's much better than that.

[iknowcool]

3 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Right but I was referring to the draft position he was taken at #2. Especially given the Giants circumstance of needing a QB post Eli in a QB heavy draft. I just didn't understand the pick at the time and I still dont despite Barkley being great. The Giants we're in prime position to get their QBOTF and passed.

They could have fastracked their rebuild with Darnold + Chubb/Freeman but chose Barkley and a 5/6 win season while still having no QB.

So what has Darnold shown you this season that makes you think he will be a franchise QB?  I'm not saying he won't be, but we're acting as if it is definitive when he hasn't played that all that well (whether it's his fault or not).

If the Giants didn't think highly of Darnold, then why should they have picked him?  What if he busts, will you still believe they should have taken Darnold?  There is no reason at this point to think taking Darnold puts them in a better position than taking Barkley when you compare how the two have performed this year.  You have to trust your evaluation, not just take the QB just because or else then you think taking JaMarcus Russell over Calvin, AD, and Joe Thomas was smart.

And the Jets still suck after taking Darnold.  So I'm not sure why him being on the Giants would fast-track their rebuild when he hasn't accomplished that with the Jets.