The greatness of Saquon Barkley

[Kip Smithers]

1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

Well to start, Ware has a Superbowl ring. Second, players like Peterson, Thomas, Mack, Donald, ect all play at positions and at levels only blue Chip prospects play at. You don't find players of their caliber at their positions in the mid-late round often--if ever.. Not nearly as often as productive #1 RBs. 

RB is the only position that consistently puts out good players after the first round. Again, look at Chubb, Conner and Lindsay. Those are 3 of the top RBs in the NFL this year. Your not finding a a DT, EDGE, OT or CB that competes at the level of Donald, Thomas, Peterson or Mack outside of the 1st round. You can however find RBs almost every year that can compete at a high level outside of the 1st round.

 

Still doesn’t mean if you see generational prospect you bypass him. That’s wrong. Productive RBs you can find anywhere, I agree. But the elite ones are found in first round. Even guys like Kamara and Bell had reasons why they weren’t first rounders. Kamara was under used at Tennessee (bare in mind he did start off at Bama). And Bell has changed dramatically since MSU.

[iknowcool]

3 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

RB is the only position that consistently puts out good players after the first round. 

You see, the problem with this is it simply isn't true.  There isn't any proof that RBs have a noticeably higher % of successful mid to late round picks than every other position.  And it certainly isn't the only position that does.  People only think so because of fantasy football and/or statistics making it easier to tell which RBs are having success vs which offensive lineman or linebackers are having success.  Pass rushers and QBs, and maybe left tackle, are the only positions where you are going to see a substantial larger percentage of the top players being 1st round selections.

RBs are also usually among the most picked position in a draft, so logically you are going to have more taken post-1st round.  That doesn't mean a team has a higher chance of grabbing a good RB.  And certainly not on the level of a prime AD, prime Zeke, prime Gurley, prime Barkley, etc.

Also, the three best RBs in the NFL are often considered to be Gurley, Zeke, and Barkley.  All 1st round picks.  5 of the 10 leading rushers in the NFL were 1st round picks.  

And the whole "Ware has a ring" thing misses the point.  He still only got that at 33 years old on a different team out of his prime, so I'm not sure how that would be proving anything.

 

[Gmen]

Everyone is hung up over the value of running backs is missing the point that Barkley is a playmaker and game changer, not just a chain mover running back. He’s a threat to take it to the house on any play due to his crazy combo of speed, quickness and size. He leads running backs in 40+ yard gains AND broken tackles by a large margin. He makes something out of nothing, and trust me, with this Giants offensive line nothing is the status quo. 

[Gmen]

double post

[iknowcool]

2017 NFL Draft

Dalvin Cook (maybe? dude's gotta stay healthy), Joe Mixon, Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt, D'Onta Foreman, James Conner, Samaje Perine, Tarik Cohen, Joe Williams, Donnel Pumphrey, Jamaal Williams, Wayne Gallaman, Marlon Mack, Brian Hill, Jeremy McNichols, T.J. Logan, Aaron Jones, Elijah McGuire, De'Angelo Henderson, Devante Mays, Khalfani Muhammad, Elijah Hood, Chris Carson, Mathew Dayes

2016 NFL Draft (Post 1st-round; underlined denotes a good/solid RB, bolded denotes a great one)

Derrick Henry, Kenyan Drake, C.J. Proisse, Tyler Ervin, Kenneth Dixon, Devontae Booker, DeAndre Washington, Paul Perkins, Jordan Howard, Wendell Smallwood, Jonathan Williams, Alex Collins, Kelvin Taylor, Darius Jackson, Dwayne Washington, Daniel Lasco, Keith Marshall, Zac Brooks

2015 NFL Draft

T.J. Yeldon, Ameer Abdullah, Tevin Coleman, Duke Johnson, David Johnson, Matt Jones, Jeremy Langford, Javorius Allen, Mike Davis, David Cobb, Jay Ajayi, Karlos Williams, Cameron Artis-Payne, Josh Robinson, Marcus Murphy, Kenny Hillard 

2014 NFL Draft

Jeremy Hill (unless you want to give him credit for his 1 solid season), Bishop Sankey, Carlos Hyde, Charles Sims, Tre Mason, Terrance West, Jerick McKinnon, Dri Archer, Devonta Freeman, Andre Williams, Ka'Deem Carey, De'Anthony Thomas, James White, Lorenzo Taliaferro, Alfred Blue, Lache Seastrunk, Marion Grice, Tyler Gaffney, Storm Johnson, Kiero Small

2013 NFL Draft

Giovani Bernard (good for what he offered anyway), Le'Veon Bell, Montee Ball, Eddie Lacy, Christine Michael, Knile Davis, Johnathan Franklin, Marcus Lattimore, Denard Robinson, Stepfan Taylor, Joseph Randle, Chris Thompson, Zac Stacy, Mike Gillislee, Latavius Murray, Kenjon Barner, Andre Ellington, Mike James, Rex Burkhead, Spencer Ware, Theo Riddick, Jawan Jameson, Kerwynn Williams, Michael Cox

2012 NFL Draft

Isaiah Pead, LaMichael James, Ronnie Hillman, Bernard Pierce, Lamar Miller, Robert Turbin, Chris Rainey, Vick Ballard, Alfred Morris, Cyrus Gray, Dan Herron, Terrance Ganaway, Michael Smith, Bryce Brown, Edwin Baker, Daryl Richardson

2011 NFL Draft

Ryan Williams, Shane Vereen, Mikel Leshoure, Daniel Thomas, DeMarco Murray, Stevan Ridley, Alex Green, Roy Helu, Kendall Hunter, Delone Carter, Taiwan Jones, Bilal Powell, Jamie Harper, Johnny White, Jacquizz Rodgers, Dion Lewis, Evan Royster, Jordan Todman, Allen Bradford, Da'Rel Scott, Anthony Allen, Baron Batch, Jay Finley

So aside from what is turning out to be an historically great 2017 RB Class (and Hunt upwards were still all taken in the 3rd and 2nd rounds), where are all these consistently high-level RBs from the mid to late rounds competing on the level of Zeke and Gurley coming from?  

RBs in the draft are like almost every other position.  You have a chance to get a great one later, but your odds are far great that you'll get a bad to below average one.  People underrate the skill that goes into playing RB.  There were so many college runners who we considered great that flamed out immediately in the NFL.  It's a position where you either got it or you don't.  You usually can't teach someone (at least by the time they get to the NFL, or even by their 3rd year in college) how to instinctively run successfully.  Which is why Le'Veon Bell's case has always been cool, he's changed his body type since coming to the league.

[iknowcool]

16 hours ago, KellChippy said:

There was a time in history when an rb was as important as qb and other positions, that time has passed.

The Cowboys roster would likely look a lot different overall had they picked Ramsey over Zeke. You shouldn’t assume they would be better off with Zeke when they had success at the rb position with plenty of players in the last five years alone.  

Why shouldn't I?  The Cowboys have been a much better team since drafting Zeke than the years before sans 2014 with Romo - they are about to make the playoffs for the 2nd time in 3 years and he's been a large reason why along with their defense.  And in 2017, they struggled to win without Zeke... logical assumption is that Zeke is a big deal to that team.

[Danger]

10 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

You’ll see the older you get the more stupid people get. Assuming you have intelligence. 

Having opinions that differ from yours does not make one stupid. That's a willfully ignorant standpoint to approach life in general.

[SmittyBacall]

10 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Darnold, Jackson and even Rosen don't look to be ready to be a true QB yet. 

What does this even mean?

[Thomas5737]

54 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

What does this even mean?

That they aren't ready? It means that they aren't ready. Works in progress for specific reasons to each of them.

[Bonanza23]

1 hour ago, Danger said:

Having opinions that differ from yours does not make one stupid. That's a willfully ignorant standpoint to approach life in general.

That’s just your opinion. 

[KellChippy]

2 hours ago, iknowcool said:

Why shouldn't I?  The Cowboys have been a much better team since drafting Zeke than the years before sans 2014 with Romo - they are about to make the playoffs for the 2nd time in 3 years and he's been a large reason why along with their defense.  And in 2017, they struggled to win without Zeke... logical assumption is that Zeke is a big deal to that team.

They also went 12-4 with a different running back who ran for 1800 in 2014.  Meanwhile a PP/Ramsey comes out every 3-4 years.

[evilpimp972]

2 hours ago, iknowcool said:

Why shouldn't I?  The Cowboys have been a much better team since drafting Zeke than the years before sans 2014 with Romo - they are about to make the playoffs for the 2nd time in 3 years and he's been a large reason why along with their defense.  And in 2017, they struggled to win without Zeke... logical assumption is that Zeke is a big deal to that team.

Actually they were better when Dez was 1 catch away to go to the conference finals. Murray left but they still had a 1000 yds rusher the next season, too bad Romo was injured and Brandon Weeden started lol.

The Cowboyz are good with Zeke but they dont win as much if they dont draft Dak period. 

[iknowcool]

1 hour ago, KellChippy said:

They also went 12-4 with a different running back who ran for 1800 in 2014.  Meanwhile a PP/Ramsey comes out every 3-4 years.

Yeah, and DeMarco Murray was an outstanding RB (not saying you specifically, but I think some people forget just how talented he was; injuries were what derailed him).  That does not lessen the impact Zeke provides them.  

Would you say a team having a great season with an elite CB means they shouldn't draft another CB if that one were to leave the next season?  It isn't like we're seeing Zeke's come out every season.

[Danger]

1 hour ago, Bonanza23 said:

That’s just your opinion. 

[iknowcool]

1 hour ago, evilpimp972 said:

Actually they were better when Dez was 1 catch away to go to the conference finals. Murray left but they still had a 1000 yds rusher the next season, too bad Romo was injured and Brandon Weeden started lol.

The Cowboyz are good with Zeke but they dont win as much if they dont draft Dak period. 

And they don't win as much if they don't draft Zeke either.  The fact is the NFL is more than a 1 player job, which is my main point.  The argument that "Barkley is doing this but the Giants are winning" just doesn't make a lot of sense given you could apply that logic to a ton of great players at different positions.

McFadden barely eclipsed 1,000, but it isn't like McFadden was completely devoid of talent.  His main issue was vision and health.  He was healthy in Dallas and they were able to lessen how much he had to find holes and cut in his 1 year in Dallas, but it's not like he had a season on the level of what Ezekiel or Murray have proven to churn out.