Strength & Conditioning - Injury Analysis for 2018

[squire12]

3 minutes ago, Scoremore said:

Boy I sure hope you are right.  My biggest fear is a new regime with the same training staff.  Could be stuck with them for another few years before they figure it out.  One would think the Packers would be aware of this critical issue.  However no changes made for better part of a decade.  A lot of guys minimize the impact that injuries have had on this team.  We have some pretty talented teams but being decimated by injuries year after year really killed us. 

MM was someone very high on keeping things consistent on the staff as much as possible.

I think a new HC would like to work with a S&C staff they have some familiarity with.

[Sasquatch]

If I were Gute, I’d get on the horn as soon as the Rams exit the playoffs and give the trainers and medical staff whatever they want to come to GB.  It’s time to throw the baby out with the bath water on this one.

[Shanedorf]

1 hour ago, squire12 said:

I think a new HC would like to work with a S&C staff they have some familiarity with.

That begs the question: Which is really more important for success ?
For the HC to have an S&C staff he is familiar with... or an S&C staff that already knows the players/their health/their injuries etc
Historically -  its been always been coach-centric, not player- centric. 
What happens when NFL teams grab a college HC, does he have to find a pro S&C staff ?

[squire12]

2 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

That begs the question: Which is really more important for success ?
For the HC to have an S&C staff he is familiar with... or an S&C staff that already knows the players/their health/their injuries etc
Historically -  its been always been coach-centric, not player- centric. 
What happens when NFL teams grab a college HC, does he have to find a pro S&C staff ?

I feel that a good deal of coaches have a comfort level with the S&C staff they have previously worked with.  Since the players will be coming and going over a few years, having the stability and comfort with the S&C staff seems like the more important piece for the HC.

I am not sure the S&C elements are that drastically different from college to Pros.  Certainly there are differences in the 18 year old vs the 30 year old, but adding strength, mass, speed, mobility, stability, recovery, etc is rather consistent across all human physiology.    It varies from individual to individual to some degree, but the main concepts are consistent.  

The methods to get from A to B to X, Y and Z can vary from S&C staff and that becomes the crux of the conversation in finding the best way to get from A to Z while minimizing the risk and maximizing the potential reward.

[incognito_man]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

I feel that a good deal of coaches have a comfort level with the S&C staff they have previously worked with.  Since the players will be coming and going over a few years, having the stability and comfort with the S&C staff seems like the more important piece for the HC.

I am not sure the S&C elements are that drastically different from college to Pros.  Certainly there are differences in the 18 year old vs the 30 year old, but adding strength, mass, speed, mobility, stability, recovery, etc is rather consistent across all human physiology.    It varies from individual to individual to some degree, but the main concepts are consistent.  

The methods to get from A to B to X, Y and Z can vary from S&C staff and that becomes the crux of the conversation in finding the best way to get from A to Z while minimizing the risk and maximizing the potential reward.

I know the NFL is the pinnacle of the football aspect, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out some college program(s) were the pinnacle of the S&C side of things - with some being research universities specializing in that sort of thing and whatnot. No clue how the money differs in that field from NCAA to NFL, though, either.

[squire12]

10 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I know the NFL is the pinnacle of the football aspect, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out some college program(s) were the pinnacle of the S&C side of things - with some being research universities specializing in that sort of thing and whatnot. No clue how the money differs in that field from NCAA to NFL, though, either.

I know there is a ton of research that goes on in the college setting.  UW has a pretty extensive S&C department and is constantly gathering information for research on just about every sport.  There is a strong push for more cutting edge techniques and and pushing the envelope to gain an edge against the programs that have a "built in advantage" in recruiting.

NFL seems to be more old school, this is what we do because we have always done it this way.  NFL also has the issue of dealing with players moving away for multiple months on end vs college having those athletes on campus for nearly 12 full months, for consecutive years.

[pacman5252]

Interesting stuff, but this was only 1 year of data. 

The OP's initial hamstring breakdown lacked significant context. I just checked pro football reference;

Cobb had 9 games questionable with a hamstring

King has been on IR 7 games with a hamstring.

That is 16 of the 18 hamstring stats we had. This would be called an outlier/small sample size.

 

The stuff I posted on the draft thread used FF's data using referencing 4 years of analysis. Injuries Ebb and Flow. We've had some bad luck this year, but 2013-2016 we were the 14th healthiest team.

https://imgur.com/a/YK9Lm

If you want to have a pity party and blame the training staff for all of our problems, that's cool. But the reality is, the last 6 or so years, we've been middle of the pack.

 

[squire12]

8 minutes ago, pacman5252 said:

Interesting stuff, but this was only 1 year of data. 

The OP's initial hamstring breakdown lacked significant context. I just checked pro football reference;

Cobb had 9 games questionable with a hamstring

King has been on IR 7 games with a hamstring.

That is 16 of the 18 hamstring stats we had. This would be called an outlier/small sample size.

 

The stuff I posted on the draft thread used FF's data using referencing 4 years of analysis. Injuries Ebb and Flow. We've had some bad luck this year, but 2013-2016 we were the 14th healthiest team.

https://imgur.com/a/YK9Lm

If you want to have a pity party and blame the training staff for all of our problems, that's cool. But the reality is, the last 6 or so years, we've been middle of the pack.

 

The real impact of the S&C staff is on soft tissue muscle injuries, the strains and pulls...Hamstrings, Groins, Quadriceps, calf, (being the majority).  Fractures, concussions, dislocations are less concerning.  Some ligament injuries might be affected by changes in S&C practices.  Using the entire AGL data pools all injuries and treats them the same, sifting through the specific injuries to see what teams are better at "reducing" the strains and pull varieties is where the discussion needs to be.  @Packer_ESP has started down that road, but it is a long and PITA process.

[deathstar]

I think something I've suspected is that this training staff is very transparent with injuries. They treat the injury report very seriously. In my opinion this is why we have more injuries listed but an average amount of players who actually miss time.

[davekenya]

Some background for this discussion...

A lot may have changed (or not) but this older 10-year study of NFL hamstrings  (1990-98) showed more than half (51.3%) of hamstring strains occurred during the (then) 7-week preseason. The preseason practice IR was significantly elevated compared with the regular-season practice IR. The most commonly injured positions were the defensive secondary, accounting for 23.1% of the injuries; the wide receivers, accounting for 20.8%; and special teams, constituting 13.0% of the injuries in the study (comment:  recent NFL kickoff rule changes will have lowered this number). Hamstring strains are a considerable cause of disability in football, with the majority of injuries occurring during the short preseason. In particular, the speed position players, such as the wide receivers and defensive secondary, as well as players on the special teams units, are at elevated risk for injury. These positions and situations with a higher risk of injury provide foci for preventative interventions.

In total, 17% (n = 283) of total hamstring injuries, including 20% of regular-season injuries and 14% of preseason injuries, were reinjuries. During the preseason, the re-injury rate was 13% (n = 91) for practices and 18%(n = 35) for games. For the regular season, the reinjury rate rose to 22% (n = 40) for practices and 19% (n =115) for games.  

For injuries occurring during all NFL games, more hamstring muscles were strained during passing plays (n =295; 37%) than during running plays (n = 147; 19%) (comment:  it would be interesting to see how GB's injury rates correlate with GB's penchant for high in-season pass/run ratios -- as more of an injury contributor than climate, player age, medical staff conservatism, etc.) 

 

Almost 4 of 5  practice injuries occurred in the preseason, with more than 70% of those occurring in July, the first month of football participation. The first month of NFL preseason games, August, is also the month with the highest incidence of game injuries; 24% of the total. These high preseason injury incidences are devastating not only for their immediate impact but also because primary hamstring strains are associated with decreased performance upon return to competition and have a high risk of more severe re-injury during the competitive season. (comment:  the possible association between isokinetic strength deficit in the injured leg compared to the healthy leg - and increased reinjury risk - remains unknown.  This is a problem; especially when athletes feel ready to return but actually aren't really biologically  'up to strength'.)

 

The authors believe that a number of factors contribute to this high hamstring strain incidence during the preseason, but most revolve around the relative deconditioning that occurs in the off-season. Muscle weakness has been implicated as a predisposing factor for both primary and recurring hamstring strain injuries. Studies have also cited the role of fatigue in causing muscle strains, suggesting that fatigued muscles are more vulnerable to injury.

Interestingly an injury prevention program in Australian Rules Football had success by integrating sport-specific high-intensity interval running and acceleration drills into preseason conditioning programs (moreso than occurs in NFL preseason work). 

 

The athlete’s hamstring muscle group needs to be not only strong with appropriate neural timing but also fatigue resistant because fatigued muscles appear vulnerable to

strain injury.  Hamstring fatigue correlates with decreased sprint speed and an alteration in sprint mechanics.  Also, hamstring fatigue has been associated with increased anterior tibial translation and a mechanical loss of knee stability, thus compounding the risk of strain injuries with risk of traumatic injuries to the knee.

• How does the current CBA and its shorter, less intense practice guidelines/mandates contribute or discourage injuries?  (Is the NFL league office researching this (and other safety related) topics to introduce recommendations for next CBA?) Part of the problem may be that, despite complaints that the NFL preseason is too long, preparation for the season may be inadequate. 
• Does sitting top players for more extended pre-season periods of time to prevent some injuries (like impact injuries - breaks, concussions, etc.) put them at higher risk for other injury types?

All teams are very aware of these issues and have various strategies to overcome them (remember the NE Pats hamstring prevention regimen widely touted a couple years ago?)  The challenge is for clubs to reduce training-related hamstring injury rates without impairing regular season game performance.  If anyone is interested and wants to make a few million dollars, here's your topic.

[squire12]

How much of the injury increase in preseason is accounted for a 90 man roster that is practicing daily and in previous eras, sometimes 2x per day vs in season 53 man roster that has 2-3 practices a week and 1 game.  

Not sure if the study looked at participation hours /injury vs just total injuries.  Activity exposure is a better metric to use when looking at incident rates.

[Shanedorf]

Sunday will be Pepper Burruss' last game with the Packers, sources said. The long-time member of the training staff is retiring. He spent 22 years as the team's head athletic trainer until four years ago, when he was reassigned to Director of Sports Medicine

[incognito_man]

22 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Sunday will be Pepper Burruss' last game with the Packers, sources said. The long-time member of the training staff is retiring. He spent 22 years as the team's head athletic trainer until four years ago, when he was reassigned to Director of Sports Medicine

this image elicits a reaction of some sort. Trying to gauge it yet.

[Shanedorf]

14 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

this image elicits a reaction of some sort. Trying to gauge it yet.

The image kinda looks like it was taken while he was setting a landspeed record and the intense wind pulled his entire face backwards

 

[{Family Ghost}]

Out with the old ... time to turn that entire medical staff over.