2019 Offseason Preview/FA Rumors

[JetsFan15]

Just now, Dr.O said:

Macc is Bad and should have been fired this past offseason, yes he’s hit on a few picks but hasn’t solved any of the long term problems we’ve had since he’s come in except for QB.

Only the most important position in football.  So yea he is bad for getting is us a good looking top prospect at that position.  When anyone makes a statement that includes BUT or EXCEPT gotta rethink the statement.

[Dr.O]

13 minutes ago, JetsFan15 said:

Only the most important position in football.  So yea he is bad for getting is us a good looking top prospect at that position.  When anyone makes a statement that includes BUT or EXCEPT gotta rethink the statement.

Not really

[barnaby8787]

2 hours ago, JetsFan15 said:

Laughing that you think taking 2 years of one guy and having to go 3 on another to compare drafts is a valid argument.  Laughing that you said top 20 GM and not me.  Laughing that you refuse to acknowledge the positives Macc has done but site "good" moves by Idzik.  Laughing that I did not say he was a top 5, 10, 20 or whatever GM but you seem to think I did.  Laughing that you are defending Idzik (really hard) .. a guy who was out after year 2 for a reason.  Laughing that you fail to mention he missed and missed badly on 2 of his 3 first round picks and the good one was caught driving over 100 mph, with a gun and child in his car.  Laughing that you think Idzik had anything to do with the 10-6 season .. that was purely on moves Macc made and Fitz being able to master Gailey's offense.  Laughing that you thinking I was putting Macc into Roseman's class when I simply answered a question that Macc is closer to a good GM than one of the worst GMs in NFL history. Probably a few more things I am laughing at but hard to type through the laughs .... ;-)

How else can you compare them though?  You have to compare their first two years.  Serious question, if Mac was with a lame duck coach and he was fired after year two, would that team after 2016 have been better than after 2014?  It's highly debatable my man.  Idzik had nothing to do with 10-6, but he gifted the cap space.  Mac has come a long way and i'm relatively cool where this team is, but to judge Idzik after two years, you need to judge Mac after his first two.  And no, Mac isn't closer to an elite GM than a bad one.

Edited May 12, 2019 by barnaby8787

[JetsFan15]

18 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

How else can you compare them though?  You have to compare their first two years.  Serious question, if Mac was with a lame duck coach and he was fired after year two, would that team after 2016 have been better than after 2014?  It's highly debatable my man.  Idzik had nothing to do with 10-6, but he gifted the cap space.  Mac has come a long way and i'm relatively cool where this team is, but to judge Idzik after two years, you need to judge Mac after his first two.  And no, Mac isn't closer to an elite GM than a bad one.

Idzik was not a bad GM. He was an all time horrible GM.  Frankly some guys on this board talk about Macc like he was Idzik.  I don't think they got the memo Idzik was fired. And you can't compare them because Idzik was that bad and Woody did the right thing and fired him.

But lets be honest and objective .. even the mighty Howie Roseman has made bad picks.  The Eagles have had loosing seasons under his leadership.  Of course they won a SB so he gets more credit and his bad picks/trades/FA moves are forgotten.  Would I rather have him ... yes. But I would have also rather had his HC the past few season and that coaching staff then Bowles.  SO again these things are not in a vacuum.  There are many variables.  But again I will disagree with you ... and mainly because Idzik was that bad.

Let's remember this convo after the season.  If Macc's moves and picks propel us to either the playoffs or a major upward swing you'll have to eat crow.  If its more of the same, I will have to eat crow.  But I really feel, with the exception of a couple of bad picks and injuries(i.e. Smith), a lot of the reason some guys did not develop was Bowles and company not knowing how they wanted to use guys or not playing to guys strengths.   We shall see but I really like the past 3 drafts.

Edited May 12, 2019 by JetsFan15

[barnaby8787]

2 minutes ago, JetsFan15 said:

Idzik was not a bad GM. He was an all time horrible GM.  Frankly some guys on this board talk about Macc like he was Idzik.  I don't think they go the memo Idzik was fired.

But lets be honest and objective .. even the mighty Howie Roseman has made bad picks.  The Eagles have had loosing seasons under his leadership.  Of course they won a SB so he gets more credit and his bad picks/trades/FA moves are forgotten.  Would I rather have him ... yes. But I would have also rather had his HC the past few season and that coaching staff then Bowles.  SO again these things are not in a vacuum.  There are many variables.  But again I will disagree with you ... and mainly because Idzik was that bad.

Let's remember this convo after the season.  If Macc's moves and picks propel us to either the playoffs or a major upward swing you'll have to eat crow.  If its more of the same, I will have to eat crow.  But I really feel, with the exception of a couple of bad picks and injuries(i.e. Smith), a lot of the reason some guys did not develop was Bowles and company not knowing how they wanted to use guys or not playing to guys strengths.   We shall see but I really like the past 3 drafts.

But again, you're missing the point.  Look at Idzik's first two years and Mac's two years.  How do you classify Mac after those first two years?  If Idzik is an all-time horrible GM, where would Mac have been if fired after his first two years?  Roseman is elite man.  Beyond the fact that he manipulates the comp picks like Bellichick does, he consistently finds the right people for their systems and consistently makes brilliant trades.  The Bradford trade, clearing out Maxwell/Alonso, etc.  And again, that's not my point.  I mentioned that i'm cool with where the team is at this point.  It just took us too long to get here.  With that said, anything less than the playoffs and it's time to pull the plug. 

[JetsFan15]

23 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

But again, you're missing the point.  Look at Idzik's first two years and Mac's two years.  How do you classify Mac after those first two years?  If Idzik is an all-time horrible GM, where would Mac have been if fired after his first two years?  Roseman is elite man.  Beyond the fact that he manipulates the comp picks like Bellichick does, he consistently finds the right people for their systems and consistently makes brilliant trades.  The Bradford trade, clearing out Maxwell/Alonso, etc.  And again, that's not my point.  I mentioned that i'm cool with where the team is at this point.  It just took us too long to get here.  With that said, anything less than the playoffs and it's time to pull the plug. 

If you want to use that then look at Roseman in 2010 and 2011.  24 Picks - 2 starters.  Passed on Earl Thomas, JPP for a nice player in Graham but think they would have rather either of those guys or Pouncey or DT.  2011 .. Danny Watkins was his number one - off their roster after year 2 - played more game and was done.  He did a great job finding Kelce in the 6th but that was it from those two drafts for the Eagles. 

So which of those three had a better first 2 drafts? 

But again I am not even looking at debate Roseman vs. Macc or vs Idzik.  Simply saying Macc is better than you are giving him credit for.  And Idzik is worse than you seem to want to admit - the draft is only one part of why Idzik was bad.  As you said trades and I will add contract structures are others.  Macc has made some nice trades as well (Marshall, Bridgewater signing and trade).

I stand by Mcc being closer to a better a GM in this league than an all time worst.

Edited May 12, 2019 by JetsFan15

[KingOfNewYork]

8 hours ago, JetsFan15 said:

He is not terrible at his job.  He is closer to Roseman than Idzik to answer your question.  He really has not missed on a 1st round pick.  He had grabbed talent via FA.  He makes sure contracts are structured well to help manage that cap.  There is nothing that should make you say he is terrible.  Can you say you don't like certain picks.  Sure.  Can you say he needs to be hit more in mid to late rounds.  Sure.  He, like all GMs, does not hit every pick or FA move but he is well within percentages to be successful.  Just like a young coach or player, this is his first time being a GM.  I see him getting better and better each year. 

 

But saying he is terrible at this job, frankly, makes you sound like you no nothing about what his job is or football at all. 

I was waiting for the you know nothing about football Reply. 

Continue to praise your average GM while we soak in mediocrity. 

[KingOfNewYork]

Idzik drafted 2 current starters for us in his 1st two years and also executed the trade that helped eventually execute the Darnold Trade. 

Macc’s first two years yielded again 2 current starters and nothing else. 

One was fired cause he was trash and the other was given more time because you can’t first two GMs in two years and Macc continue to be trash. 

I mean I can’t really understand how a man can be so bad at his job. 

[KimuraGod]

This debate on Mac needs to move on now. He hasn’t been fired and most likely won’t until the conclusion of the season (if it goes bad) so let’s just stick a pin in this for the time being. 

[barnaby8787]

8 hours ago, JetsFan15 said:

If you want to use that then look at Roseman in 2010 and 2011.  24 Picks - 2 starters.  Passed on Earl Thomas, JPP for a nice player in Graham but think they would have rather either of those guys or Pouncey or DT.  2011 .. Danny Watkins was his number one - off their roster after year 2 - played more game and was done.  He did a great job finding Kelce in the 6th but that was it from those two drafts for the Eagles. 

So which of those three had a better first 2 drafts? 

But again I am not even looking at debate Roseman vs. Macc or vs Idzik.  Simply saying Macc is better than you are giving him credit for.  And Idzik is worse than you seem to want to admit - the draft is only one part of why Idzik was bad.  As you said trades and I will add contract structures are others.  Macc has made some nice trades as well (Marshall, Bridgewater signing and trade).

I stand by Mcc being closer to a better a GM in this league than an all time worst.

Graham and Kelce are still better than what Idzik and Mac produced. He also found some other roles players as well, but obviously we’re talking long-term. In terms of Mac trades, Marshall was good for us year one and that was it. Teddy B was years later. I’m taking first two years. If you ran a poll, the majority of Jets fans and non-Jets fans would disagree with you. A lot have been calling for Mac’s head for years. This looks like his best-off-season yet but we’ll find out. Either way, his drafts have never been impressive.  Literally not a single one. We’ll find out if this one is any different. 

[NYJets4716]

I happen to think we could surprise and push for a wildcard this season,  so call me a optimist but this is the best roster we had in a while. I am a Sam Darnold believer,  wouldnt shock me if he throws for 28-34 TD  this season with 3,800 yards 64% completion.   I believe in Darnold and think Gase is gonna get him to take the jump year 2.  I just think Darnold has that special skillset and work ethic to succeed.   But we need guys to stay healthy. 

I think our defense is gonna be good, elite interior and Trumaine Johnson has a big year.  I like Roberts, but wouldn't mind Claiborne coming back.  I think Leonard Williams has a monster contract year. Quinnen Williams is gonna be a stud.  We end up with 3-4 probowlers on defense.  Not unrealistic cause Adams, Mosely,  Williams and Johnson all made it before.  I just love the leadership Mosely and Adams brings.

I'll be optimistic, too many negative Nancy's 

Edited May 12, 2019 by NYJets4716

[JetsFan15]

3 hours ago, barnaby8787 said:

Graham and Kelce are still better than what Idzik and Mac produced. He also found some other roles players as well, but obviously we’re talking long-term. In terms of Mac trades, Marshall was good for us year one and that was it. Teddy B was years later. I’m taking first two years. If you ran a poll, the majority of Jets fans and non-Jets fans would disagree with you. A lot have been calling for Mac’s head for years. This looks like his best-off-season yet but we’ll find out. Either way, his drafts have never been impressive.  Literally not a single one. We’ll find out if this one is any different. 

My point is that even a guy who is thought of as a great / top GM has bad drafts and doesn't hit on every pick.  Ozzie Newsome had them too.

Jets fans for the most part are negative.  I have had season tickets since 1990 and I can tell you that even in good years or good games there are folks in that stadium who find something to complain about.  On this board its the same.  So when guys are making statements that our GM is terrible, horrible at his job blah blah blah ... yea I am going to call them out on their BS and negativity. 

Either way, Macc is our GM.  I think he could have netted us 5 top to elite level players the past 3 drafts but time will tell.  I also think guys should look at the positivities not the negatives.  It's not who is right or wrong or if your guy didn't get picked ... its about winning a SB.

Edited May 12, 2019 by JetsFan15

[JetsFan15]

3 minutes ago, NYJets4716 said:

I happen to think we could surprise and push for a wildcard this season,  so call me a optimist but this is the best roster we had in a while. I am a Sam Darnold believer,  wouldnt shock me if he throws for 28-34 TD  this season with 3,800 yards 64% completion.   I believe in Darnold and think Gase is gonna get him to take the jump year 2.  I just think Darnold has that special skillset and work ethic to succeed.   But we need guys to stay healthy. 

I think our defense is gonna be good, elite interior and Trumaine Johnson has a big year.  I like Roberts, but wouldn't mind Claiborne coming back. 

I'll be optimistic, too many negative Nancy's 

I am with you bro .. especially about Sam.  If he makes that jump we can make the playoffs this year.  I am excited about the D too.  Williams is an aggressive DC.  Adding Mosley and Q.  GW will get more out of Leo and Adams.  Maye needs to be healthy and I am confident Tru bounces back.  Depth in the DL and anxious to see if the interior pressure can be help the edge pressure.  Aug can't come fast enough

[barnaby8787]

4 minutes ago, JetsFan15 said:

My point is that even a guy who is thought of as a great / top GM has bad drafts and doesn't hit on every pick.  Ozzie Newsome had them too.

Jets fans for the most part are negative.  I have has season tickets since 1990 and I can tell you that even in good years or good games there are folks in that stadium who find something to complain about.  On this board its the same.  So when guys are making statements that our GM is terrible, horrible at his job blah blah blah ... yea I am going to call them out on their BS and negativity. 

Either way, Macc is our GM.  I think he could have netted us 5 top to elite level players the past 3 drafts but time will tell.  I also think guys should look at the positivities not the negatives.  It's not who is right or wrong or if your guy didn't get picked ... its about winning a SB.

Which I 100% agree with, but my point is that you can't label Idzik an all-time bad GM over two seasons when Mac wasn't much better over his first two.  Mac, over his first few years was terrible.  Recently, he's been better.  

[JetsFan15]

18 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

Which I 100% agree with, but my point is that you can't label Idzik an all-time bad GM over two seasons when Mac wasn't much better over his first two.  Mac, over his first few years was terrible.  Recently, he's been better.  

I understand.  There were other things beside the draft with Idzik that leads me to that conclusion though.  He was a ghost with the media for the most part. Maybe that is because Rex was such a media darling or maybe he just did not like to do it ... I think the GM needs to be out there in the off season.  Idzik did nothing to revamp the scouting department.  Bradway was basically still running the scouting department and I don't think he was that good or just simply burnt out.  A new GM needs to bring in their people to effect change in a failing organization.  This at worst surrounds himself with guys loyal to him and his philosophy.  At best motivates any hold overs to get on top of their game since they realize their job is not secure.  I can't speak to this management style as I did not work there nor did I read much about it, but from the outside he just looked overwhelmed... I have no proof just literally a gut instinct based on body language I saw. 

To me, the GM more so than the HC sets the tone inside the building.  The HC sets the tone inside the locker room and on the field. They need to be in harmony.   I did not see or feel like Idzik did that or was any type of leader.  Again, maybe that was because Rex had such an overwhelming personality but I did not feel that way about Tanenbaum/Rex combo. 

So while one could perhaps argue Idzik would have gotten better in talent evaluation, I don't feel that way as he did nothing to change, manage or revamp the scouting department. I just don't / didn't' see him as a leader of an organization. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by JetsFan15