2019 NFL Draft Thread v.2

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

59 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

More and more deflecting blame. At some point, the QB is responsible for his play. 

 

 So were plays like this due to poor oline play or no weapons? Dont give me padded stats during garbage time which Carr is known for. Carr has had issues with pressure since his college days.

In 2017, Carr was average and still was skittish under pressure when our oline was top 5, with Crabtree and Cooper. Everyone blamed the OC and drops.

 

 

Derek Carr was a top 5 paid QB last and ended up ranked near the bottom of the league. He was PAID LIKE AN ALL PRO the last 2 seasons. #5 in 2017 and 2018 in the NFL. 

Listen, at the end of the day, our staff must make the decision whether Carr is the guy who can compete with Mahomes to win the AFC West. At this point Carr doesnt make enough plays to compete vs Mahomes. 

 

 

That was not a good look for Carr. All QB's make bad decisions with the ball, but that was awful and shouldn't be thrown by a $125 million QB. I don't think any other QB in the league would have thrown that duck.

[NYRaider]

8 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

We are not taking a QB at 4 and I have said BPA outside of QB numerous times.  Talk about lack of reading comprehension. 

I'm trying to follow your thought process bc it's all over the place.  A few pages ago you say Oliver was a liability in the run game, now you're saying he's strong against the run?  Which is it?   

You're also making assumptions about his size and assuming this 21 year old elite athlete can't add good weight and muscle and will be stuck at an alleged 270 his whole career.  Yet you feel comfortable taking Q Williams at 4 and paring him next to Hurst but not Oliver bc of 20 lbs?  I'm just trying to figure out your stance bc frankly it's so convoluted it's confusing.  

You’ve legit failed to address any good point that I’ve made. You skip over it and say “trust another site, NFL network doesn’t know.” I mean we didn’t just hire one of their anchors as or GM or anything, those guys are terrible. But when DJ says something positive about your boy, they’re the best, other than though, they suck. 

I’m not even going to go back and forth with you anymore. What smallish DT’s have had a lot of success in the league recently? Aaron Donald and Geno Atkins are the only two that I can think of. Donald plays right next to Suh, who, you guessed it, is massive at 6’4” 315. Atkins plays next to two 6’4” 325+ NT on almost every snap which plays a huge role in freeing him up for one on one situations. 

If playing two super small DT’s together is so effective, why doesn’t any NFL team do it? Are you smarter than all 32 NFL coaching staffs and GMs? 

[Frankie2Gunz]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

You’ve legit failed to address any good point that I’ve made. You skip over it and say “trust another site, NFL network doesn’t know.” I mean we didn’t just hire one of their anchors as or GM or anything, those guys are terrible. But when DJ says something positive about your boy, they’re the best, other than though, they suck. 

I’m not even going to go back and forth with you anymore. What smallish DT’s have had a lot of success in the league recently? Aaron Donald and Geno Atkins are the only two that I can think of. Donald plays right next to Suh, who, you guessed it, is massive at 6’4” 315. Atkins plays next to two 6’4” 325+ NT on almost every snap which plays a huge role in freeing him up for one on one situations. 

If playing two super small DT’s together is so effective, why doesn’t any NFL team do it? Are you smarter than all 32 NFL coaching staffs and GMs? 

If Q Williams (290lbs) is on the board at 4 do you pass on him?  If not why is that?  

[Devilshark69]

isn't Q Williams like 20 yrs old? 20lbs for him is 310 , not to mention he played in the SEC....and dominated. for the record ill take Ferrell or white at 4

[BayRaider]

Guys enough of the Oliver stuff... I’m certainly not touching him at 4 but if the staff loves him with a small trade down I’m fine with it. 

As for the Carr debate, a lot of his play last year was HIS fault. So tired of Carr fans acting like he wasn’t even 5% responsible. Carr came on strong towards the end but he played terrible the first 60% of the season and was captain checkdown, even without pressure coming. 

However, with that said, drafting a QB this year would be dumb and Carr should start all 16 games this year. Let’s see how much he progresses this year. Maybe he looks like 2016 Carr which would be fantastic. Maybe he looks like 2017/2018 Carr which means he’s out of here. Only time will tell. 

I remember from the graphs Carr was throwing all within 10 yards for majority of his games in 2018, it looked even worse than one of Alex Smith’s charts. Then Carr went on interview about it: “You can only throw deep one time a game against an NFL defense”. What???? What!? You make all of your reads, if you have good one on one option that’s a mismatch, you take it. And you just told the entire NFL world your mindset is throwing deep once a game. I lost all respect for Carr when he said that. Hopefully he can earn it with some stellar play this year. Of course he could care less about my respect but his job is on the line this year 100%. 

[bucksavage1]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Do we pass on Q Williams if he is there at 4 bc we have Hurst?  Q Williams is a 290 lb 3T?  Or do you have the same insight as @NYRaider who says it's ok to draft WIlliams bc he, "looks bigger".  LOL 

What if J WIlliams projects as the next Joe Thomas and is on the board at 4.  Do we pass on him bc we have Miller?  I'm not sure that would be a smart move and I feel like we need to go BPA no matter the position outside of QB.  

Unless the Raiders see Williams as a DE, he will not go at #4 as DT is the last position on defense we need to draft. How does it make our team better by stacking DTs? Only enough snaps and reps that go around. 

Still very very early in the process, the combine and  free agency hasn't hit.

 

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

Unless the Raiders see Williams as a DE, he will not go at #4 as DT is the last position on defense we need to draft. How does it make our team better by stacking DTs? Only enough snaps and reps that go around. 

Still very very early in the process, the combine and  free agency hasn't hit.

 

Williams is one of two generational talents in the draft with Bosa. If he is somehow there, especially with Bosa and Allen gone, he will be the pick without question. 

[Devilshark69]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 3:55 AM, big_palooka said:

KAMARA 

lmao!!

[NYRaider]

46 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

If Q Williams (290lbs) is on the board at 4 do you pass on him?  If not why is that?  

Quinnen Williams is bigger than Oliver and has a bigger frame. As I've explained to you 100 times I think Williams size at 6'4" 295 would make it easier for him to play next to Hurst in our base defense. Either way, I'd prefer an edge rusher or a trade down at 4.

[Bitty 2.0]

2 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Atkins is a beast and let's say that comparison is accurate, I would take a player like Atkins at 4.  This team needs an influx of elite talent almost everywhere and while Hurst appears to be an above average player he is not an elite game changing stud.  

My point in this whole argument is that we need a top tier, elite talent at 4 and for all of these mocks and I don't understand the talking heads not mentioning Oliver as a potential pick at 4.  If Oliver pans out his talent will be leaps and bounds above any other player we have on our D line.  

 Too many variables for my taste. The  position he plays in college is nonexistent in the NFL , played in the small conference, his size and was hurt this year.

 In my opinion the Raiders need players with high floors to build a solid foundation.

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Atkins is a beast and let's say that comparison is accurate, I would take a player like Atkins at 4.  This team needs an influx of elite talent almost everywhere and while Hurst appears to be an above average player he is not an elite game changing stud.  

My point in this whole argument is that we need a top tier, elite talent at 4 and for all of these mocks and I don't understand the talking heads not mentioning Oliver as a potential pick at 4.  If Oliver pans out his talent will be leaps and bounds above any other player we have on our D line.  

Atkins also plays next to two of the biggest NT's in the NFL with the Bengals. There's a reason he doesn't play next to another super small 3T. Hurst led rookie DT's in sacks last season and only played in 13 games, hell he matched Khalil Mack's rookie sack total last season. PJ Hall is an athletic freak, probably an even better athlete than Oliver, but had trouble adjusting to the level of competition. With those two already in the fold, it doesn't make sense to draft another DT, especially one that can't play alongside them. 

Geno Atkins only had 3 sacks as a rookie, should Cincinnati have written him off after year 1 and drafted someone over him? 

[NYRaider]

18 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

 Too many variables for my taste. The  position he plays in college is nonexistent in the NFL , played in the small conference, his size and was hurt this year.

 In my opinion the Raiders need players with high floors to build a solid foundation.

We're going to build the modern NFL DL consisting of 4 6'1" 260 guys across the board.

[Frankie2Gunz]

21 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Atkins also plays next to two of the biggest NT's in the NFL with the Bengals. There's a reason he doesn't play next to another super small 3T. Hurst led rookie DT's in sacks last season and only played in 13 games, hell he matched Khalil Mack's rookie sack total last season. PJ Hall is an athletic freak, probably an even better athlete than Oliver, but had trouble adjusting to the level of competition. With those two already in the fold, it doesn't make sense to draft another DT, especially one that can't play alongside them. 

Geno Atkins only had 3 sacks as a rookie, should Cincinnati have written him off after year 1 and drafted someone over him? 

You're comparing Hurst to some big time names in the NFL. Mack, Atkins etc while making assumptions about players sizes and weight so your only point as to why one DT should be drafted over another. Don't forget Hurst had a bad heart that could end his career at any second. 

I agree with most on here they DT is not a position of need but I also know this team needs elite talent at most every position. 

I'm just having a hard time trying to figure out why you would be on board with Williams at 4 but not oliver other than your assumptions about size. I personally think that if other talent is there at 4 at a more premium position (DE, CB etc.) and the talent is close we take those players. 

Being for Williams at 4 and not oliver makes zero sense. That is what is confusing and your argument that Williams is allegedly bigger is solely based on assumption.

Having Williams as a potential pick at 4 but not Oliver makes zero sense and that's my point. 

[bucksavage1]

 

28 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Guys enough of the Oliver stuff... I’m certainly not touching him at 4 but if the staff loves him with a small trade down I’m fine with it. 

As for the Carr debate, a lot of his play last year was HIS fault. So tired of Carr fans acting like he wasn’t even 5% responsible. Carr came on strong towards the end but he played terrible the first 60% of the season and was captain checkdown, even without pressure coming. 

However, with that said, drafting a QB this year would be dumb and Carr should start all 16 games this year. Let’s see how much he progresses this year. Maybe he looks like 2016 Carr which would be fantastic. Maybe he looks like 2017/2018 Carr which means he’s out of here. Only time will tell. 

I remember from the graphs Carr was throwing all within 10 yards for majority of his games in 2018, it looked even worse than one of Alex Smith’s charts. Then Carr went on interview about it: “You can only throw deep one time a game against an NFL defense”. What???? What!? You make all of your reads, if you have good one on one option that’s a mismatch, you take it. And you just told the entire NFL world your mindset is throwing deep once a game. I lost all respect for Carr when he said that. Hopefully he can earn it with some stellar play this year. Of course he could care less about my respect but his job is on the line this year 100%. 

Agreed, I just don't understand what people were watching with Carr this year to deflect all of the blame from him. He has become the captain check down which makes drives stop short. Carr. He's so rattled in the pocket he doesn't let the play develop. I think Carr is at the bottom at average yards per pass and at the bottom of attempts below the 1st down marker. Beyond frustrating to watch

 

He's another good video from PFF debating the Carr issue and having a rookie scale QB salary to rebuild other parts of the team

https://youtu.be/0vTYfErFqhY

 

I would consider taking a QB at #4 and start Carr  2019 if no good trade is available. Best Case Scenario is that we have two Qbs going into 2020 offseason that you could get a 1st rounder or more for. We all know QBs are currency now and drafting Murray gives us a good problem to have. 

However, if we ride with Carr and he plays average ball again, we might be in a draft position where we'll have to trade up to get a QB. 

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, bucksavage1 said:

 

Agreed, I just don't understand what people were watching with Carr this year to deflect all of the blame from him. He has become the captain check down which makes drives stop short. Carr. He's so rattled in the pocket he doesn't let the play develop. I think Carr is at the bottom at average yards per pass and at the bottom of attempts below the 1st down marker. Beyond frustrating to watch

 

He's another good video from PFF debating the Carr issue and having a rookie scale QB salary to rebuild other parts of the team

https://youtu.be/0vTYfErFqhY

 

I would consider taking a QB at #4 and start Carr  2019 if no good trade is available. Best Case Scenario is that we have two Qbs going into 2020 offseason that you could get a 1st rounder or more for. We all know QBs are currency now and drafting Murray gives us a good problem to have. 

However, if we ride with Carr and he plays average ball again, we might be in a draft position where we'll have to trade up to get a QB. 

Even if we trade Carr no way do I touch a QB in the 1st this year. I would roll the dice on Grier in the 3rd AND Finley in the 4th, yes draft both. Worst case scenario, draft a QB in the 1st in 2020 which is a better class.