TheKillerNacho Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, beekay414 said: It's not unguarded optimism, if that's what you're getting after. He's shown reasons why one should be optimistic and his connections to previous highly successful staffs also brings reason for optimism. If your only critique is inexperience, well then, there's nothing more to talk about. Likewise, if your only positive towards LaFleur is his endorsement from previous co-workers, then yeah... Guess there really isn't anything to talk about. Seems like a coin toss. In one corner, we have inexperience. And in the other, commonplace positive words from previous co-workers. Both hold a relative weight of 0 in my books. Which is kinda what I said all along.... 0 reason to be optimistic, 0 reason to be pessimistic. The perfect Pandora's Box hiring, which can neither be viewed as good or bad through logical examination of the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 He’s not calling the plays is he? If so, GL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Just now, TheKillerNacho said: Likewise, if your only positive towards LaFleur is his endorsement from previous co-workers, then yeah... Guess there really isn't anything to talk about. Seems like a coin toss. In one corner, we have nothing. And in the other, nothing. It's not. It also comes from things he showed in his first season as an OC. There were several positives to take away from his time in Tennessee. Was it consistent? Absolutely not. Was it discouraging? Also, no. LIS before, it's better to get ahead of the 8 ball than be behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 27 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: The Packers will be successful no matter what so long as Aaron Rodgers is at QB and healthy, despite LaFleur. Instead of trying to defend LaFleur's lack of success in Tennessee, perhaps you should focus on evidence as to why you believe LaFleur may be a good coach? So far as I can see, there isn't any. The Packers struggled offensively last year despite McCarthy having a better resume. But that's neither here nor there. Let's look at this objectively, if LaFleur would have stayed with the Rams, we would be talking about him as the top HC candidate. Instead, he goes to Tennessee, gets a full year of experience as a play caller, and now we're talking about a lackluster HC candidate? No. I've pointed out why I think LaFleur is going to be a good candidate. He went from averaging 31 attempts per game in the first 8 games to just 23 attempts over the final 8, which shows me that he's capable of adjusting his offensive scheme to fit his players. The Titans averaged just under 17 PPG over the first 8 games, and averaged 22 PPG over the final 8 seasons. That's improvement over the course of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Just now, beekay414 said: It's not. It also comes from things he showed in his first season as an OC. There were several positives to take away from his time in Tennessee. Was it consistent? Absolutely not. Was it discouraging? Also, no. LIS before, it's better to get ahead of the 8 ball than be behind it. Tbh, his playcalling in Tennessee was atrocious. If we allow this into evidence, it's a pretty large negative so it would be in your best interest to chalk up his lack of success in Tennessee to talent... But to quote my edit: Quote Seems like a coin toss. In one corner, we have inexperience. And in the other, commonplace positive words from previous co-workers. Both hold a relative weight of 0 in my books. Which is kinda what I said all along.... 0 reason to be optimistic, 0 reason to be pessimistic. The perfect Pandora's Box hiring, which can neither be viewed as good or bad through logical examination of the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinneasGage Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said: He’s not calling the plays is he? If so, GL. he's no jacque vaughn, huh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: The Packers struggled offensively last year despite McCarthy having a better resume. But that's neither here nor there. Let's look at this objectively, if LaFleur would have stayed with the Rams, we would be talking about him as the top HC candidate. Instead, he goes to Tennessee, gets a full year of experience as a play caller, and now we're talking about a lackluster HC candidate? No. I've pointed out why I think LaFleur is going to be a good candidate. He went from averaging 31 attempts per game in the first 8 games to just 23 attempts over the final 8, which shows me that he's capable of adjusting his offensive scheme to fit his players. The Titans averaged just under 17 PPG over the first 8 games, and averaged 22 PPG over the final 8 seasons. That's improvement over the course of the season. Color me unimpressed by these accolades. If you're trying to justify him as better than McCarthy... maybe? McCarthy didn't really have the best resume prior to GB either. "If LaFleur stayed with the Rams"... well yeah. The Rams seemed just fine without him this season, though. Better, in fact. Like I said, I don't blame you for being optimistic. Certianly better to roll the dice with LaFleur than stick with the same anemic McCarthy. But from my perspective it's just that: a roll of the dice. I'm not entirely sure what you're objecting to. Do you honestly think LaFleur is a surefire candidate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 12 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: No - that's not what I'm getting at, at all. By merely justifying LaFleur's lack of success in Tennessee, you're merely canceling out, at best, the negative arguments against LaFleur. You aren't building a positive argument for LaFleur. Even if you cancel out all of the negative... let's put it at a numerical value of -50. Your cancellation is +50. That still leaves 0 reason to think LaFleur is a good coach. What I'm asking is, what is the positive reasons for thinking LaFleur will be a good head coach? So far, the best answers I've had were that Shanahan and McVay recommended him. Which, honestly, is pretty weak. Every HC hiring is heralded by positive reinforcement from former players and coaches. I've grown tired of such answers. Maybe he will be a great coach. Like I said, I don't know him. But I really don't see any reason why he will be. It's not "justification", it's explaining the lack of success. How much success do you think Sean McVay has with the personnel in place? What about Bill Belichick? There's only so much you can do when your starting QB can't even hold the football, and your entire offensive unit has one or two starters who start for the Packers. There's no real offensive talent in Tennessee. Trying to make any concrete opinion one way or the other on LaFleur based on the hand he was dealt with is foolish at best. He was given an awful hand and at best was average at best. There's risk involved with LaFleur, there's no way around it. He's only got one year of play calling experience, and he's coming from a team devoid of offensive talent. But like bk said, if he had a huge year with Tennessee then he's easily the most attractive candidate available. There's going to be some growing pains, I think we'd be foolish to think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: It's not "justification", it's explaining the lack of success. How much success do you think Sean McVay has with the personnel in place? What about Bill Belichick? There's only so much you can do when your starting QB can't even hold the football, and your entire offensive unit has one or two starters who start for the Packers. There's no real offensive talent in Tennessee. Trying to make any concrete opinion one way or the other on LaFleur based on the hand he was dealt with is foolish at best. He was given an awful hand and at best was average at best. There's risk involved with LaFleur, there's no way around it. He's only got one year of play calling experience, and he's coming from a team devoid of offensive talent. But like bk said, if he had a huge year with Tennessee then he's easily the most attractive candidate available. There's going to be some growing pains, I think we'd be foolish to think otherwise. Bro, this is all I've said from the beginning. Glad we can agree. My position was never that LaFleur was going to be a surefire failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: Tbh, his playcalling in Tennessee was atrocious. If we allow this into evidence, it's a pretty large negative so it would be in your best interest to chalk up his lack of success in Tennessee to talent... No it wasn't. Quit with the hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: The Rams seemed just fine without him this season, though. Better, in fact. This is the 2nd time you've brought that up while neglecting to address what @incognito_man asked you. Doug Pederson and Matt Nagy both left KC and they are in the AFC Championship game with a better offense than ever. Is that a knock on Pederson and Nagy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, beekay414 said: No it wasn't. Quit with the hyperbole. You want me to quote Titans fans in the LaFleur thread? Pretty sure there is about a dozen who criticized LaFleur's playcalling. Unless you have no interest in the opinions of fans of the Titans' opinions on the playcalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, beekay414 said: This is the 2nd time you've brought that up while neglecting to address what @incognito_man asked you. Doug Pederson and Matt Nagy both left KC and they are in the AFC Championship game with a better offense than ever. Is that a knock on Pederson and Nagy? Something something, exception to the rule, something something. Are you seriously trying to argue that beacuse Pederson and Nagy had good first years in their HC jobs, LaFleur will? Reality check - there is a half-dozen (at least) HC hires every year, usually from respective staffs. All but one of them each year usually end in complete failure. Moreover, Pederson and Nagy are from the Andy Reid coaching tree - LaFleur isn't. What relevance is their success to LaFleur's?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Just now, TheKillerNacho said: You want me to quote Titans fans in the LaFleur thread? Pretty sure there is about a dozen who criticized LaFleur's playcalling. Unless you have no interest in the opinions of fans of the Titans' opinions on the playcalling. You want me to quote the dozens of Packers fans that bitched about Mike McCarthy when McCarthy was winning 10+ games a year? Fans aren't the be all, end all when it comes to things like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, TheKillerNacho said: Pretty sure there is about a dozen who criticized LaFleur's playcalling This means way less than zero. Message board fans are not qualified to make intelligent comments on NFL playcalling That you think they are.... suggests you don't really have a firm grip on what it takes to call an NFL game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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