Dallas Cowboys - NFL Draft Prospect Meetings

[flyingmonkey30]

41 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

I agree with him though. Ferg, and Rapp are good players.

I have a late 2/early 3 on Ferguson, so 58 is right around where I would feel comfortable taking him. I think there will be better options available, but if we're wiped out at S and DT, I could see them going with Ferguson

[matt79511]

I’m only ok with taking Ferguson if we follow it up with cutting Crawford and signing Suh/McCoy

[Calvert28]

2 hours ago, DaBoys said:

I agree with him though. Ferg, and Rapp are good players.

I do not see a starter with Ferguson . At best, a journyman NFL player.

[DaBoys]

2 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

I do not see a starter with Ferguson . At best, a journyman NFL player.

It's not ideal for me to go DE first pick. But I think he is good value at 58. He had 39 sacks through 38 games the last 3 years. That's no accident. 

That said, I hope someone else is available and Ferguson goes somewhere else. So basically I hope you are right, and I am being mislead about his potential.

[DaBoys]

3 hours ago, flyingmonkey30 said:

I have a late 2/early 3 on Ferguson, so 58 is right around where I would feel comfortable taking him. I think there will be better options available, but if we're wiped out at S and DT, I could see them going with Ferguson

The board is going to have to be pretty obliterated for me to enjoy picking a DE. I think Ferguson is worthy of a late second/early third though. It would be a head scratcher but not much of a reach.

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

9 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

The board is going to have to be pretty obliterated for me to enjoy picking a DE. I think Ferguson is worthy of a late second/early third though. It would be a head scratcher but not much of a reach.

I agree that defensive end just isn’t a priority in this draft for us, so if I’m drafting one at #58, it’s because I think they are a lot better than a 2/3. 

[Calvert28]

12 hours ago, DaBoys said:

It's not ideal for me to go DE first pick. But I think he is good value at 58. He had 39 sacks through 38 games the last 3 years. That's no accident. 

That said, I hope someone else is available and Ferguson goes somewhere else. So basically I hope you are right, and I am being mislead about his potential.

If we select him at 58 then I hope I am dead wrong. But go look at his competition it's nothing inspiring.

[flyingmonkey30]

12 hours ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

I agree that defensive end just isn’t a priority in this draft for us, so if I’m drafting one at #58, it’s because I think they are a lot better than a 2/3. 

In the short term I would agree. In the long term, Quinn is on a one year deal, Crawford could get cut after this season for huge cap savings, and we don't really know what Gregory's situation is long term. We know this team likes to try to get ahead of things by drafting areas of need a year early, so that's why I'm not discounting a DE early.

35 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

If we select him at 58 then I hope I am dead wrong. But go look at his competition it's nothing inspiring.

For the most part, yeah his competition is pretty meh. But he looked pretty good against LSU, I thought

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

14 minutes ago, flyingmonkey30 said:

In the short term I would agree. In the long term, Quinn is on a one year deal, Crawford could get cut after this season for huge cap savings, and we don't really know what Gregory's situation is long term. We know this team likes to try to get ahead of things by drafting areas of need a year early, so that's why I'm not discounting a DE early.

Everything you are saying could be said about most positions on the roster. Certainly CB, RT, DT, WR, TE, and S at least. 

Mat defensive end, though, you have some potential solutions. You have invested picks in Taco and Dorance Armstrong. You still have the possibility of Gregory. Crawford is still under contract, potentially you could get him to take a pay cut like Sean Lee.

You aren’t in a bind at DE after this season, at all, like you are at other spots.  It makes no sense to me, then, to force drafting an extremely mediocre athlete at the position. It’s one thing if a really legit prospect falls to you. But a guy like Ferguson makes no sense, short or long-term.

[flyingmonkey30]

17 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

Everything you are saying could be said about most positions on the roster. Certainly CB, RT, DT, WR, TE, and S at least. 

Mat defensive end, though, you have some potential solutions. You have invested picks in Taco and Dorance Armstrong. You still have the possibility of Gregory. Crawford is still under contract, potentially you could get him to take a pay cut like Sean Lee.

You aren’t in a bind at DE after this season, at all, like you are at other spots.  It makes no sense to me, then, to force drafting an extremely mediocre athlete at the position. It’s one thing if a really legit prospect falls to you. But a guy like Ferguson makes no sense, short or long-term.

You could definitely say the same thing about other positions, which is why I wouldn't be surprised at any of the above you listed off either. Ferguson wouldn't be my favorite pick at 58, but I think it's very realistic and I'm half trying to talk myself into being okay with it when it happens.

On the other hand, it's so hard to predict the draft, especially 58 picks in, so you never know who might fall

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

1 hour ago, flyingmonkey30 said:

You could definitely say the same thing about other positions, which is why I wouldn't be surprised at any of the above you listed off either. Ferguson wouldn't be my favorite pick at 58, but I think it's very realistic and I'm half trying to talk myself into being okay with it when it happens.

On the other hand, it's so hard to predict the draft, especially 58 picks in, so you never know who might fall

Under contract for 2020:

Cornerback:

• Chidobe Awuzie
• Jourdan Lewis

Defensive Tackle:

• None (Tyrone Crawford, if you want to count him here)

Safety:

• Xavier Woods

Tight End:

• Dalton Schultz

Defensive End:

• DeMarcus Lawrence
• Taco Charlton
• Dorance Armstrong
• Tyrone Crawford
• Randy Gregory

The situation at DE is not nearly as pressing. There is a good chance you could make no changes, and enter 2020 with a full stack of legit NFL players at the position. That is not true about the other spots. At DT, S, TE, and CB, #58 is a virtual lock to be a full-time starter by 2020. I get that there is some uncertainty with some players on our roster at DE, but that's just not the case with a late-2/early-3 defensive end prospect. Especially a low-ceiling one like Ferguson. 

[matt79511]

1 hour ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

Under contract for 2020:

Cornerback:

• Chidobe Awuzie
• Jourdan Lewis

Defensive Tackle:

• None (Tyrone Crawford, if you want to count him here)

Safety:

• Xavier Woods

Tight End:

• Dalton Schultz

Defensive End:

• DeMarcus Lawrence
• Taco Charlton
• Dorance Armstrong
• Tyrone Crawford
• Randy Gregory

The situation at DE is not nearly as pressing. There is a good chance you could make no changes, and enter 2020 with a full stack of legit NFL players at the position. That is not true about the other spots. At DT, S, TE, and CB, #58 is a virtual lock to be a full-time starter by 2020. I get that there is some uncertainty with some players on our roster at DE, but that's just not the case with a late-2/early-3 defensive end prospect. Especially a low-ceiling one like Ferguson. 

Blake Jarwin and Antwaun Woods are RFAs next year, for whatever that’s worth. So they’re probably not going anywhere.

I’m not a huge fan of Ferguson either, but these moves don’t necessarily occur in a vaccuum. Taco and/or Crawford might end up playing more DT this year, or just be gone in the next 3-12 months, and you can put those marginal savings towards the secondary and whatnot.

With Quinn a free agent next year, and Randy and Taco being Randy and Taco, I would never pass on a stud RDE if he’s there. Unfortunately we appear to be repeating our mistakes with Taco on Ferguson.

[DaBoys]

5 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

If we select him at 58 then I hope I am dead wrong. But go look at his competition it's nothing inspiring.

Senior

2018- 6 tackles - 1 TFL - 1 sack - 1 forced fumble against LSU

2018 -5 tackles - 3 TFL - 2 sacks against Mississippi State

2018 - 5 tackles- 2.5 TFL - 2.5 sacks - 1 pass defection in the Hawaii Bowl against Hawaii 

 

Junior

2017 - 4 tackles against Mississippi State

2017 - 1 tackle - 1 TFL - 1 sack against South Carolina 

 

Sophamore 

2016 - 4 tackles against Arkansas 

2016 - 4 tackles against Texas Tech

 

Freshman 

2015 - 5 tackles - 2.5 TFL - 1 sack against Mississippi State

 

 

There's 8 games against SEC teams, bigger programs than his school, and a bowl game.

Not all of them are gems, but you can't say that he completely drops off when facing a bigger school:

34 tackles - 10 TFL -  7.5 sacks - 1 pass defection - 1 forced fumble - in 8 games against larger schools going back to his freshman year.

 

I question his athleticism, his effort(which is the biggest issue I have), and wonder if he is another Taco. But obvious production is obvious, and he didn't disappoint against larger schools. 

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

1 hour ago, matt79511 said:

With Quinn a free agent next year, and Randy and Taco being Randy and Taco, I would never pass on a stud RDE if he’s there. 

That's the key for me. I'll take a stud at any position all day. But if you are telling me this DE is a late-2/early-3, I can promise you there is a late-2/early-3 available at another position that I prefer (Trysten Hill, for example)

[Calvert28]

35 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

I question his athleticism, his effort(which is the biggest issue I have), and wonder if he is another Taco. But obvious production is obvious, and he didn't disappoint against larger schools. 

I said competition not schools. Einland is not a NFL prospect. And if he does get there it will be as an UDFA. And his other sack was against a guard who may not make it to the NFL either.

I think the only legit NFL prospect he's faced was Rankin and he didn't line up with his hand in the dirt and mostly played on the 2nd level. And his result was only 4 tackles.