MSURacerDT55 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 8 hours ago, Techbert said: I think Quenton Nelson should have won. Not only was he an All-Pro, but his team improved from 4-12 to 10-6. Obvi, he was not the only reason why, but he made the rest of the OL better and the improved OL made the rest of the team better. And helped to keep the qb healthier. Not going to happen, since OG do not touch the ball other than to recover fumbles, but I think he was the best rookie and the rookie who helped his team the most. False,they also drafted Braden Smith this year who deserves credit as well for their turnaround, and he didn't do as much as Baker did, if Nelson got hurt, they could survive because Luck drives the bus there, if Baker goes down its all over for the Browns. As far as the OROY, Good for Barkley but I'm good having my QBOF, and playoff expectations moving forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techbert Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said: False,they also drafted Braden Smith this year who deserves credit as well for their turnaround, and he didn't do as much as Baker did, if Nelson got hurt, they could survive because Luck drives the bus there, if Baker goes down its all over for the Browns. As far as the OROY, Good for Barkley but I'm good having my QBOF, and playoff expectations moving forward So you think it is false that I think Quenton Nelson is the rookie who helped his team the most? Prove that I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Techbert said: So you think it is false that I think Quenton Nelson is the rookie who helped his team the most? Prove that I don't. Having Luck back was probably a bigger influence on their 6 win improvement. It's a team effort but QB is a huge factor, always is and was the biggest reason the Browns had 7 more wins than the previous season. Doesn't prove what you believe but hard to believe that you believe what you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 10 hours ago, Techbert said: I think Quenton Nelson should have won. Not only was he an All-Pro, but his team improved from 4-12 to 10-6. Obvi, he was not the only reason why, but he made the rest of the OL better and the improved OL made the rest of the team better. And helped to keep the qb healthier. Not going to happen, since OG do not touch the ball other than to recover fumbles, but I think he was the best rookie and the rookie who helped his team the most. No way. Upgrading from a bad QB to an average QB elevates a team much more than going from even the worst guard of all-time to the best guard of all-time. It is the nature of the position. I'm glad the voters were able to look past positional importance though and recognize Barkley for having the best rookie season. Nelson this year is like Zack Martin back in 2014. Both are guards who played phenomenally well, but they will never win the award because a skill position player had an amazing season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, minutemancl said: No way. Upgrading from a bad QB to an average QB elevates a team much more than going from even the worst guard of all-time to the best guard of all-time. It is the nature of the position. I'm glad the voters were able to look past positional importance though and recognize Barkley for having the best rookie season. Nelson this year is like Zack Martin back in 2014. Both are guards who played phenomenally well, but they will never win the award because a skill position player had an amazing season. How did Barkley have a better season than the first team All Pro if we’re ignoring positional importance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: How did Barkley have a better season than the first team All Pro if we’re ignoring positional importance? bro all positions are equal but some positions are more equal than others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: How did Barkley have a better season than the first team All Pro if we’re ignoring positional importance? First of all, Barkley got snubbed for an all-pro spot big time. Nelson turned it on big time down the stretch, but he struggled for the first 1/3-1/2 of the season. Braden Smith was a much better rookie OL for the Colts in that time. Then Nelson showed what he was capable of and was dominant to finish the season. But Barkley was more consistent in that way; it took him no time to get going. The other thing is position is considered, at least a little bit. It's the reason Mayfield was neck and neck with Barkley for the award- Mayfield plays unquestionably the more important position. Barkley was probably the best RB in the NFL this year and Baker was middle of the pack of all QBs, but they still competed for the award because of the position. It is a bit unfair, but guard is seen as probably the lowest positional importance of all offensive/defensive positions. Lastly, since there are no widely accepted or consistently measured stats to use to measure OL play, there are no metrics to attribute to Nelson. There is nothing to 'jump out at you' or to compare him to his peers or past players. I feel like that is the main reason none of these OL will ever win OROTY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techbert Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 52 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Having Luck back was probably a bigger influence on their 6 win improvement. It's a team effort but QB is a huge factor, always is and was the biggest reason the Browns had 7 more wins than the previous season. Doesn't prove what you believe but hard to believe that you believe what you believe. And having Nelson affected Luck. Luck sucked the first six games, when Nelson was learning his position. Luck played lights out while Nelson was playing lights out. So without Nelson playing well, the Colts were 1-5 even with Braden Smith. With Nelson playing well, Colts went 10-1. But guard play doesn't matter. Check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 36 minutes ago, mistakey said: bro all positions are equal but some positions are more equal than others Any day we can get an Orwell/Animal Farm reference in, it's a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Techbert said: So you think it is false that I think Quenton Nelson is the rookie who helped his team the most? Prove that I don't. Its already proven, 100% of the credit shouldn't go to Nelson when Smith, the OL coach, the DROY and Luck all have something to do with the team's success. Trust me, he is a stud, but to put give him 100% of the credit for the team's success is asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Techbert said: And having Nelson affected Luck. Luck sucked the first six games, when Nelson was learning his position. Luck played lights out while Nelson was playing lights out. So without Nelson playing well, the Colts were 1-5 even with Braden Smith. With Nelson playing well, Colts went 10-1. But guard play doesn't matter. Check. Gotcha, Luck was a byproduct of Nelson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techbert Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: Its already proven, 100% of the credit shouldn't go to Nelson when Smith, the OL coach, the DROY and Luck all have something to do with the team's success. Trust me, he is a stud, but to put give him 100% of the credit for the team's success is asinine. Quote Obvi, he was not the only reason why, but he made the rest of the OL better and the improved OL made the rest of the team better. And helped to keep the qb healthier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 36 minutes ago, Techbert said: yes they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techbert Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: Gotcha, Luck was a byproduct of Nelson. I don't like to be misquoted, which some here love to do. So much easier to attack a straw man, I guess. Anyway, Luck's QBR his first 6 games was 88.77. Luck's QBR his last 10 games was 106.8. In every single year of his career he has never had a season that trended upwards as the season went on, much less this dramatically. Not surprising, since he usually gets dinged up as the season went along. Wonder why he did not get dinged up like that this season? All in all, a very excellent season for a quarterback coming back from serious injury. Pretty unbelievable season, since the 88.77 is more what you would expect coming back like this. He deserves credit, but I am sure he would absolutely share that credit. I wonder why you won't give credit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Luckily the Giants locked down the always hard to fill position of RB. Now comes adding the plug and play QB and they’re set. I’d be pretty stoked to get my choice of Haskins or Lock, even if I had to trade up. Those guys are studs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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