Greater player of all time? Jerry Rice or Tom Brady

[patriotsheatyan]

Rice controls records in impossible ways and stands out among his peers more than Brady. Brady has more positional value, won the SB Tuesday, and is an active player so he will win this poll though. 

[Asciimo]

6x super bowl champion.. no one will ever top that. brady allll day

[jsthomp2007]

Wholly molly, I was going to post this topic...maybe not necessarily the comparison between Jerry and Tom...but, who is the greatest football player of all-time.  The reason I thought of this is that my neighbor used to be an announcer for the Yankees and we were talking about Mariano Rivera's unanimous HOF induction and that it was the first time in MLB history for a player to get the unanimous vote.  My neighbor suggested that the reason is that you can carry a debate on who the best hitter was, the best outfielder, the starting pitcher....but, when it came to Rivera there really is no debate.  He has all the statistics, rings, and simply the eye test; you watch him and you know that he was the best closer of all time. 

So, how does that apply in football?  I'd have to go with Jerry Rice.  There is no debate that he was the greatest WR of all-time where there is some debate on whether Tom Brady is the greatest QB.  It is debatable to me that Montana was the best.  And, I am not a 49ers fan, btw; it was just the era of football I grew up in and the 49ers were the best team at the time.   I have a friend who grew up in the 70s and he can make the argument that Bradsahw was just as dominant as Brady...four rings and two back-to-back Super Bowls.  And he did it in an era where you had really good teams along time the Steelers, namely the Cowboys and Raiders.  Bradshaw and Montana also played in eras where the rules weren't skewed towards the offense as they are today.  So, there is a debate on whether Brady is the best, no matter minute the debate is.  However, I think there is very little, to no question, that Jerry Rice was the best receiver...

[Uncle Buck]

Brady.  Easily. 

Rice was a great player, but let's face it, he was drafted by a team that didn't really need him to win.  The year before the 49ers drafted him they went 15-1 and won the Super Bowl.

In contrast, there have been seasons where Brady was practically working with scrubs.  20 years from now, how many players do you think the average fan will be able to name from this year's Patriots team?  Probably not many. 

[Uncle Buck]

1 hour ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Wholly molly, I was going to post this topic...maybe not necessarily the comparison between Jerry and Tom...but, who is the greatest football player of all-time.  The reason I thought of this is that my neighbor used to be an announcer for the Yankees and we were talking about Mariano Rivera's unanimous HOF induction and that it was the first time in MLB history for a player to get the unanimous vote.  My neighbor suggested that the reason is that you can carry a debate on who the best hitter was, the best outfielder, the starting pitcher....but, when it came to Rivera there really is no debate.  He has all the statistics, rings, and simply the eye test; you watch him and you know that he was the best closer of all time. 

So, how does that apply in football?  I'd have to go with Jerry Rice.  There is no debate that he was the greatest WR of all-time where there is some debate on whether Tom Brady is the greatest QB.  It is debatable to me that Montana was the best.  And, I am not a 49ers fan, btw; it was just the era of football I grew up in and the 49ers were the best team at the time.   I have a friend who grew up in the 70s and he can make the argument that Bradsahw was just as dominant as Brady...four rings and two back-to-back Super Bowls.  And he did it in an era where you had really good teams along time the Steelers, namely the Cowboys and Raiders.  Bradshaw and Montana also played in eras where the rules weren't skewed towards the offense as they are today.  So, there is a debate on whether Brady is the best, no matter minute the debate is.  However, I think there is very little, to no question, that Jerry Rice was the best receiver...

3

Actually, there are plenty of people who would debate that Randy Moss was better than Jerry Rice.  As far as Bradshaw and Montana are concerned, you can say that they played in an era where once you assembled a great team, it was a lot easier to keep that team together and easier keep a dynasty going.  To me, this is the biggest point in Brady's favor.  What he and Bill Belichick have done in an era of parity for the rest of the league is absolutely amazing.

[jsthomp2007]

30 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

Actually, there are plenty of people who would debate that Randy Moss was better than Jerry Rice.  As far as Bradshaw and Montana are concerned, you can say that they played in an era where once you assembled a great team, it was a lot easier to keep that team together and easier keep a dynasty going.  To me, this is the biggest point in Brady's favor.  What he and Bill Belichick have done in an era of parity for the rest of the league is absolutely amazing.

Randy Moss doesn't have the stats that Jerry Rice had.  From the eye test, sure...I thought after Randy Moss' rookies season that he would shatter all of Jerry Rice's records.  Not sure what derailed him, but Jerry has the stats and the eye test...plus championships to back it all up.  I don't think there is an argument for Randy being better than Jerry Rice, sorry...I just don't see the case for it.  

I have often heard that Jim Brown was probably the best player ever, but I never saw him play...the only thing that I can see are highlight reals and he looked beastly for sure.  However, I did get to see Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Emmitt Smith.  Our of those three, if Barry had kept playing he would have shattered every RB record out there...so, does that put Barry at the top of the list of best players?  

The debate can continue, I don't know of another safety as good as Ronnie Lott, ever! Or a defensive lineman as great as Reggie White.  I thought Lawrence Taylor was the best LB I ever saw, because he could single takeover a game by himself...and perhaps I am judging from a bit of homerism, but I have see Von Miller take over games...heck in the last Super Bowl run, he took over in each of the playoff games and the Super Bowl...so, I think Von could be put into the Lawrence Taylor category...I'd think.  

My point of all of this...if there is a debate, the player can't be the greatest.  If there is a debate then at that point we could suggest that it is all opinion.  I mean, put Mariano Rivera on KC Royals or the Colorado Rockies and is as dominant?  Put John Elway on the 49ers teams with a coach like Bill Walsh, Jerry Rice, and Roger Craig and does Elway become the greatest?  If you were to put Brady on the Browns teams over the last decade and does he carry them to multiple championships...if any??

Edited February 6, 2019 by jsthomp2007

[Pugger]

1 hour ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Randy Moss doesn't have the stats that Jerry Rice had.  From the eye test, sure...I thought after Randy Moss' rookies season that he would shatter all of Jerry Rice's records.  Not sure what derailed him, but Jerry has the stats and the eye test...plus championships to back it all up.  I don't think there is an argument for Randy being better than Jerry Rice, sorry...I just don't see the case for it.  

I have often heard that Jim Brown was probably the best player ever, but I never saw him play...the only thing that I can see are highlight reals and he looked beastly for sure.  However, I did get to see Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Emmitt Smith.  Our of those three, if Barry had kept playing he would have shattered every RB record out there...so, does that put Barry at the top of the list of best players?  

The debate can continue, I don't know of another safety as good as Ronnie Lott, ever! Or a defensive lineman as great as Reggie White.  I thought Lawrence Taylor was the best LB I ever saw, because he could single takeover a game by himself...and perhaps I am judging from a bit of homerism, but I have see Von Miller take over games...heck in the last Super Bowl run, he took over in each of the playoff games and the Super Bowl...so, I think Von could be put into the Lawrence Taylor category...I'd think.  

My point of all of this...if there is a debate, the player can't be the greatest.  If there is a debate then at that point we could suggest that it is all opinion.  I mean, put Mariano Rivera on KC Royals or the Colorado Rockies and is as dominant?  Put John Elway on the 49ers teams with a coach like Bill Walsh, Jerry Rice, and Roger Craig and does Elway become the greatest?  If you were to put Brady on the Browns teams over the last decade and does he carry them to multiple championships...if any??

Moss might have been the more physically gifted of the 2 but nobody outworked Rice and Jerry's work ethic was legendary.

[Superman(DH23)]

14 hours ago, Rtnldave said:

Lol

Jerry owns the record book, and it's likely never to be topped.  He has the rings.  He has the peak seasons.  He literally has everything you can try to use to argue for somebody.  As great as TB12 is, they had to make up stats this year so he could have some sort of all time record.  He played in an era of GOAT QBs, one retired with nearly every record, another in the process of breaking those records, and new stats have to be made up for Brady.  I'm sorry but no, this isnt an argument.

[Rtnldave]

55 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Jerry owns the record book, and it's likely never to be topped.  He has the rings.  He has the peak seasons.  He literally has everything you can try to use to argue for somebody.  As great as TB12 is, they had to make up stats this year so he could have some sort of all time record.  He played in an era of GOAT QBs, one retired with nearly every record, another in the process of breaking those records, and new stats have to be made up for Brady.  I'm sorry but no, this isnt an argument.

So does Emmitt Smith for RB's, but everyone here seems to think Barry Sanders was better.

That is beside the point.

Tom Brady played in an era, FA, where his supporting cast is constantly being reshuffled. He did it with a variety of WR's and RB's and assistant coaches. Jerry Rice had the luxury of Montana and Young and the bulk of his team the majority of his career.

Made up stats??? Tom Brady went to 9 Super Bowls!!!! Nothing made up about that. 

In short, Brady wins with anything and anyone. NO player in NFL history could say that, not to the degree Brady can.

Case Closed.

 

 

[Superman(DH23)]

57 minutes ago, Rtnldave said:

So does Emmitt Smith for RB's, but everyone here seems to think Barry Sanders was better.

That is beside the point.

Tom Brady played in an era, FA, where his supporting cast is constantly being reshuffled. He did it with a variety of WR's and RB's and assistant coaches. Jerry Rice had the luxury of Montana and Young and the bulk of his team the majority of his career.

Made up stats??? Tom Brady went to 9 Super Bowls!!!! Nothing made up about that. 

In short, Brady wins with anything and anyone. NO player in NFL history could say that, not to the degree Brady can.

Case Closed.

 

 

No Emmitt Smith does not own the record book.  He owns the career rushing record.  Jerry Rice owns every WR record.  And nobody is ever going to touch them.  Frank effin Gore is closing in on Emmitt Smith.  

And I'm sorry, I didnt realize that the Patriots were the only team in NFL history to win the SuperBowl with one player on the roster.   Brady has been magnificent on the playoffs.  The level of TEAM success he has attained is to be commended and admired.  But to try to put him on "Jesus in Cleats" level (thanks Cris Carter) is just unfathomable.  We will NEVER see another player do what Rice has done.

[Rtnldave]

1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said:

No Emmitt Smith does not own the record book.  He owns the career rushing record.  Jerry Rice owns every WR record.  And nobody is ever going to touch them.  Frank effin Gore is closing in on Emmitt Smith.  

And I'm sorry, I didnt realize that the Patriots were the only team in NFL history to win the SuperBowl with one player on the roster.   Brady has been magnificent on the playoffs.  The level of TEAM success he has attained is to be commended and admired.  But to try to put him on "Jesus in Cleats" level (thanks Cris Carter) is just unfathomable.  We will NEVER see another player do what Rice has done.

Only rushing yards huh?

How about most rushing TDs?

Most rushing TDs in the post season.

Most rushing yards in the post season.

Most attempts by a RB.

Only player to win league MVP, SB MVP and the rushing title in the same year in ONLY 14 games.

Shall I go on?

Frank Gore is 3500 yards behind Smith in as many seasons.

Oh, and in a 3 year span, Cowboys vs 49ers in the NFCCG, Smith bested Rice 2 to 1.

And the Patriots win NOTHING without Brady.

Cowboys win NOTHING without Smith.

9ers won a SB without Rice.

Sure, wasn't there but Montana was, so was Walsh and the majority of an already proven SB winning team.

The same can't be said for Smith or Brady.

In fact, Smith walked into a 1and 15 team.

Sorry, I think your argument is more man crush than fact.

Was Rice the GOAT WR? Yes.

GOAT player. Nope. That honor goes to Brady.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Rtnldave

[lancerman]

6 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Randy Moss doesn't have the stats that Jerry Rice had.  From the eye test, sure...I thought after Randy Moss' rookies season that he would shatter all of Jerry Rice's records.  Not sure what derailed him, but Jerry has the stats and the eye test...plus championships to back it all up.  I don't think there is an argument for Randy being better than Jerry Rice, sorry...I just don't see the case for it.  

I have often heard that Jim Brown was probably the best player ever, but I never saw him play...the only thing that I can see are highlight reals and he looked beastly for sure.  However, I did get to see Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Emmitt Smith.  Our of those three, if Barry had kept playing he would have shattered every RB record out there...so, does that put Barry at the top of the list of best players?  

The debate can continue, I don't know of another safety as good as Ronnie Lott, ever! Or a defensive lineman as great as Reggie White.  I thought Lawrence Taylor was the best LB I ever saw, because he could single takeover a game by himself...and perhaps I am judging from a bit of homerism, but I have see Von Miller take over games...heck in the last Super Bowl run, he took over in each of the playoff games and the Super Bowl...so, I think Von could be put into the Lawrence Taylor category...I'd think.  

My point of all of this...if there is a debate, the player can't be the greatest.  If there is a debate then at that point we could suggest that it is all opinion.  I mean, put Mariano Rivera on KC Royals or the Colorado Rockies and is as dominant?  Put John Elway on the 49ers teams with a coach like Bill Walsh, Jerry Rice, and Roger Craig and does Elway become the greatest?  If you were to put Brady on the Browns teams over the last decade and does he carry them to multiple championships...if any??

Stats aren't everything. Jerry Rice had Montana and Young for over a decade of his career. Moss had Brady for two full years and nothing close to him. 

Moss at his peak did things I couldn't conceive of Rice doing. I can see Moss doing everything Rice ever did.  

[Superman(DH23)]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

Stats aren't everything. Jerry Rice had Montana and Young for over a decade of his career. Moss had Brady for two full years and nothing close to him. 

Moss at his peak did things I couldn't conceive of Rice doing. I can see Moss doing everything Rice ever did.  

1987

[Superman(DH23)]

2 hours ago, Rtnldave said:

Only rushing yards huh?

How about most rushing TDs?

Most rushing TDs in the post season.

Most rushing yards in the post season.

Most attempts by a RB.

Only player to win league MVP, SB MVP and the rushing title in the same year in ONLY 14 games.

Shall I go on?

Frank Gore is 3500 yards behind Smith in as many seasons.

Oh, and in a 3 year span, Cowboys vs 49ers in the NFCCG, Smith bested Rice 2 to 1.

And the Patriots win NOTHING without Brady.

Cowboys win NOTHING without Smith.

9ers won a SB without Rice.

Sure, wasn't there but Montana was, so was Walsh and the majority of an already proven SB winning team.

The same can't be said for Smith or Brady.

In fact, Smith walked into a 1and 15 team.

Sorry, I think your argument is more man crush than fact.

Was Rice the GOAT WR? Yes.

GOAT player. Nope. That honor goes to Brady.

 

 

You have to kidding me with some of those right? Attempts?? If ever there was a compiler stat that would be it.  You named 4 records, 3 of which nobody gives a scrap about.  Rice has owned the ENTIRE WR RECORD BOOK! Career, single season, single game.  Catches, yards, TDs. You name it.  But you know why you bring up Smith, bc you already know as I do, when it comes to the record book, Bradys name isnt worth mentioning on any individual statistic.   Team accomplishments sure, and I am more than willing to give the devil his due, Brady is absolutely outstanding in the postseason.  But in terms of football player cmon man.  You ain't listing him ahead of LT, Reggie White, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Jim Brown.  And you sure as hell ain't listing him ahead of Jerry Rice.

[y*so*blu]

Different teams, different positions, different eras for the most part. There is nothing meaningful to be gained from this comparison. They are both arguably the best of all time at their respective jobs.