Packers new slot receiver is ....

[ThatJerkDave]

On 2/21/2019 at 12:26 PM, pacman5252 said:

Kumerow and Allison are going into year 4 in their NFL careers. History says major progression after year 3 doesn't happen.  If you want you can bring up exceptions, but you are pretty much picking cherries. They are what they are at this point (fringe roster 4th string wrs)

You can argue ESB/MVS popping a bit. I'd still think you'd want to hedge with an additional player considering it would be a pretty big jump for both of them to become consistent legitimate 2/3rd options.

Geronimo has stepped up every single time that he has had an opportunity.  How is that a fringe roster guy? He was a fine #2 until getting injured last season.  Is it because he ran 4.6 something in a 40? Is it because he was not drafted? 

I swear, some of you would have cut Donald Driver in 2001.

[Dubz41]

38 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Nope

 

 

Hard pass on both.  Just not worth that money.

[pacman5252]

46 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Geronimo has stepped up every single time that he has had an opportunity.  How is that a fringe roster guy? He was a fine #2 until getting injured last season.  Is it because he ran 4.6 something in a 40? Is it because he was not drafted? 

I swear, some of you would have cut Donald Driver in 2001.

Allison has 750 yards in 3 years in the NFL. He was graded as a 61.4 on PFF (a 4th wr).There is a difference between occasionally making a few plays and being considered for a starting job.

Packer fans have a recent history of overvaluing their depth at wr. For the one Driver example that panned out, there list a list of guys fans overvalued (Martin, Janis, Abby, Max McCaffrey, Boykin, Charles Johsson,  Jeremy Ross, Swain... and these are some of the better ones, ). Pretty much every year we have a camp darling that doesn't make the roster and gets cut.

After Adams last year, 6 wrs we had on the roster graded as 64.4 or lower on PFF (mostly wr4s, street fa levels). A jump to quality #2/3 would be a massive improvement from any of these guys, which it would be pretty irresponsible to bank on.

[ThatJerkDave]

3 hours ago, pacman5252 said:

Allison has 750 yards in 3 years in the NFL. He was graded as a 61.4 on PFF (a 4th wr).There is a difference between occasionally making a few plays and being considered for a starting job.

Packer fans have a recent history of overvaluing their depth at wr. For the one Driver example that panned out, there list a list of guys fans overvalued (Martin, Janis, Abby, Max McCaffrey, Boykin, Charles Johsson,  Jeremy Ross, Swain... and these are some of the better ones, ). Pretty much every year we have a camp darling that doesn't make the roster and gets cut.

After Adams last year, 6 wrs we had on the roster graded as 64.4 or lower on PFF (mostly wr4s, street fa levels). A jump to quality #2/3 would be a massive improvement from any of these guys, which it would be pretty irresponsible to bank on.

Allison also averages 13.8 yards per catch in his career, and a TD every 13.75 catches.  He was on pace to get 1.5 times his career targets, about double his receptions, and twice his career yardage last season before getting injured.  His stats carried out to 16 games were:    96 targets, 64 catches, 970 yards, and 6 TDs.  That is including the Rams game where he had one reception, and was out for the rest of the season.  Looks a lot like a James Jones season to me.  Not a replacement level player.  Again, a guy that has stepped up every single time his number has been called.

[pacman5252]

10 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Allison also averages 13.8 yards per catch in his career, and a TD every 13.75 catches.  He was on pace to get 1.5 times his career targets, about double his receptions, and twice his career yardage last season before getting injured.  His stats carried out to 16 games were:    96 targets, 64 catches, 970 yards, and 6 TDs.  That is including the Rams game where he had one reception, and was out for the rest of the season.  Looks a lot like a James Jones season to me.  Not a replacement level player.  Again, a guy that has stepped up every single time his number has been called.

13.8 yards isn’t that impressive when you are talking 20 catches a year.

Using prorated numbers from like 3 games is not a good argument either. If you isolate all the good, you are ignoring all the bad (some would call it confirmation bias). He’s not the only player to have a nice couple game stretch (Cobb for example has at points been  son 1000 yard pace at points the last 4 years)... the fact is he graded as a 4th wr on his tape and I think it is fair to say his ceiling is like a low end wr 3.

[SSG]

22 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Geronimo has stepped up every single time that he has had an opportunity.  How is that a fringe roster guy? He was a fine #2 until getting injured last season.  Is it because he ran 4.6 something in a 40? Is it because he was not drafted? 

I swear, some of you would have cut Donald Driver in 2001.

 

Was he a fine #2 last year prior to the injury?  The offense as a whole certainly didn't look playoff caliber with him as the #2.  Our offense was a dumpster fire in the first half of the Chicago game (shut out).  It scored just 1 TD in week 2 against Minnesota.  In week 3 the offense was curb stomped by a mediocre Washington defense.  In week 4, they could only manage 2 Crosby field goals in the second half against a horrid Bills team.  Week 7 was the only good offensive showing with Allison as a starter and he had 1 catch in the game.  

And I'm sure a lot of fans would have plugged Jeff Janis in as a starter in 2016.

[MacReady]

Just now, SSG said:

And I'm sure a lot of fans would have plugged Jeff Janis in as a starter in 2016.

And I am 1000% sure you were ready to cut Davante Adams after 2015. 

Guess what... When you've got a cheap 4th string receiver, you know what you do?  You keep them.  Because cutting them is stupid. 

[Nick_gb]

21 hours ago, pacman5252 said:

Allison has 750 yards in 3 years in the NFL. He was graded as a 61.4 on PFF (a 4th wr).There is a difference between occasionally making a few plays and being considered for a starting job.

Packer fans have a recent history of overvaluing their depth at wr. For the one Driver example that panned out, there list a list of guys fans overvalued (Martin, Janis, Abby, Max McCaffrey, Boykin, Charles Johsson,  Jeremy Ross, Swain... and these are some of the better ones, ). Pretty much every year we have a camp darling that doesn't make the roster and gets cut.

After Adams last year, 6 wrs we had on the roster graded as 64.4 or lower on PFF (mostly wr4s, street fa levels). A jump to quality #2/3 would be a massive improvement from any of these guys, which it would be pretty irresponsible to bank on.

I assure you banking on that "jump to quality #2/3" is not any more irresponsible then banking on PFF to win arguments.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Nick_gb

[Isherwood]

The answer to the thread title is Andy Isabella 

[pacman5252]

1 hour ago, Nick_gb said:

I assure you banking on that "jump to quality #2/3" is not any more irresponsible then banking on PFF to win arguments.

It is when there are multiple years of tape on a guy. Ally has been playing three years. At some point you are what you are

[Nick_gb]

3 minutes ago, pacman5252 said:

It is when there are multiple years of tape on a guy. Ally has been playing three years. At some point you are what you are

It isn't when you bring in the other young wideouts that only have their rookie years worth of tape. PFF is not the holy gospel to all that is right or wrong with a player. I can never take an argument seriously that uses PFF as the foundation of their argument. It's just silly.

[SSG]

3 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

And I am 1000% sure you were ready to cut Davante Adams after 2015. 

Guess what... When you've got a cheap 4th string receiver, you know what you do?  You keep them.  Because cutting them is stupid. 

Par with the course, you are 100% incorrect.  I've said many times but I was skeptical about Adams after his bad injury filled second season (I wanted a WR drafted) but I didn't want him cut.  

Not sure where the cutting talk is coming from.  I haven't advocated for any of our WRs to be cut.  

[pacman5252]

1 hour ago, Nick_gb said:

It isn't when you bring in the other young wideouts that only have their rookie years worth of tape. PFF is not the holy gospel to all that is right or wrong with a player. I can never take an argument seriously that uses PFF as the foundation of their argument. It's just silly.

I never said it was. But in all honesty, how much was there to get excited about? Very limited production. ARs rating dropped like 30 points targeting them. The grade kind of just reinforces it.

 

I’m not giving up on our guys by any means, I’m just setting realistic expectations.

Kumerow and Allison are going into year 4 and haven’t produced much. There is legitimately a higher percentage chance they are not in the nfl in 2 years than in. 

EQ and MVS flashed a little. Still a lot of questions. The odds say 1 of them doesn’t pan out.

[Mazrimiv]

1 hour ago, pacman5252 said:

EQ and MVS flashed a little. Still a lot of questions. The odds say 1 of them doesn’t pan out.

Does that mean the odds also say one of them does pan out?

[PossibleCabbage]

If we're drafting a slot, Isabella is too rich for my blood but there's a good chance you can get a pretty good deal on Stanley Morgan Jr.   His 40 is pedestrian but his agility drills are off the charts (6.78 cone!) so he projects well inside.