Golfman Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 LOL! You left out he was injured and missed most of his 4th season. He was playing behind Houston and Tamba Hali in the first two years of his career, so not many chances. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman5252 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, Donzo said: Disregarding the value of 1st and 2nd round picks and cap space is a nonstarter, so I won't waste time on that... And, are Preston Smith and Dee Ford really comparable salary cap comps? Spotrac has Preston at 11.1 and ford at 16.5. Depending on FA, the numbers could go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyIrish23 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Dee Ford is Nick Perry. Just like every other available pass rusher this year. It's baffling to me how quickly people throw away cap space and draft picks to get the exact same players just because they're on a different team. 1.5 sacks as a rookie (literally everybody here would be calling him a bust) 4 sacks as a second year pro. 10 sacks as a third year pro. 2 sacks in his fourth year. 13 sacks in his contract year. Nick Perry: 2 sacks 4 sacks 3 sacks 3.5 sacks11 sacks, interception How people can't look at production versus contract years and see that magical boost players seem to get in their contract year is beyond me. Dee Ford is so painfully Nick Perry. I've been trying to ignore this thread because I hate arguing with people who can't seem to see these very clear realities, but I couldn't let it go any longer. 2016 when he got 10 sacks? 7.5 of those sacks came in three games. So we've got a bunch of people here willing to send a second round pick to get another Nick Perry/Clay Matthews contract on this team. We haven't had those contracts taking up space long enough, so apparently people just want to remind themselves what it's like to overpay pass rushers just because they effing love overpaying pass rushers. It's not enough to pay 13-15 million, we have to give up a 2nd-4th round pick to do it. Because some people convince themselves that it can't possibly backfire if we give up draft capital for them or something. This is all assuming we even ARE interested, which I doubt. Everybody throws our name in. I don't think it's true. The reports of the Packers having been interested in Brown when he was almost traded to the Bills? Like 20 minutes later, there were 5 times the amount of stories saying we actually weren't interested. It's like... Literally the first question people should ask is, "Why are the Chiefs selling?" They've tagged him, he is a pass rusher, and now they're not going to keep him? You think that's a good sign? You think that's literally anything other than a bad sign? It's a bad sign. Dee Ford is Kansas City's Nick Perry, and just because he has a different name and has played for a different team, you're all ready to throw draft picks at the Chiefs. My official stance is I do not want Dee Ford unless it is for a 4th round pick or lower and a short term (1/2 year) contract. Otherwise, I'd just as soon take a risk on Perry having an up year. I don’t have the most football knowledge on here but Ford & Perry are not the same player. Look at QB pressures for Perry & Ford. They have different styles with Ford having tremendous burst and speed which is vastly different than Perry. Plus Ford had limited snaps his rookie year because of the depth in front of him. Lastly Ford has proven over the last couple of season the ability to force fumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Just now, LuckyIrish23 said: I don’t have the most football knowledge on here but Ford & Perry are not the same player. Look at QB pressures for Perry & Ford. They have different styles with Ford having tremendous burst and speed which is vastly different than Perry. It's about production. I don't want to get in the habit of paying for one year of production at the end of a contract season. It's a bad habit to get into, and I think Packer fans should know better. It's even more dangerous a prospect with pass rushers. They're different players, exact same situations. Quote Lastly Ford has proven over the last couple of season the ability to force fumbles. Lol. He had two career forced fumbles before his contract season. Quote Plus Ford had limited snaps his rookie year because of the depth in front of him. Bad excuse. Aldon Smith had 14 sacks with zero starts as a rookie. It's literally easier to have strong production when you're solely a pass rush specialist. This is just a terrible point. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, Golfman said: Given the lack of EDGE rushers in this years free agency, I'll bet they are closer than you would think after Smith gets his contract. Then that's an easy pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, pacman5252 said: Spotrac has Preston at 11.1 and ford at 16.5. Depending on FA, the numbers could go up. That's as good a guess as anybody's and they wouldn't be comps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Justin Houston costs zero to acquire and has produced every single year of his career. His injury concerns are overstated with one missed season (16 games) in the past three years, and he still had 22.5 sacks in the past three years (which is more than Ford's entire career). He's also 2 years older than Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Dee Ford is Nick Perry. Just like every other available pass rusher this year. It's baffling to me how quickly people throw away cap space and draft picks to get the exact same players just because they're on a different team. To be fair, Ford is younger and better than Perry, but he's also gonna be much more expensive. 100% agree not wanting to leverage both premium draft and cap space assets on Ford... That's something the Redskins would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpdaly23 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: It's about production. I don't want to get in the habit of paying for one year of production at the end of a contract season. It's a bad habit to get into, and I think Packer fans should know better. It's even more dangerous a prospect with pass rushers. They're different players, exact same situations. Lol. He had two career forced fumbles before his contract season. Bad excuse. Aldon Smith had 14 sacks with zero starts as a rookie. It's literally easier to have strong production when you're solely a pass rush specialist. This is just a terrible point. Sorry. If we never gave players contract extensions because they hadn’t produced monster numbers prior to a contract year, we would have never resigned Davonte Adams. Some players just take longer to hit their stride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyIrish23 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Justin Houston costs zero to acquire and has produced every single year of his career. His injury concerns are overstated with one missed season (16 games) in the past three years, and he still had 22.5 sacks in the past three years (which is more than Ford's entire career). He's also 2 years older than Ford. Have they released Houston yet? Plus don’t you pay on future production rather than past production? I will eat crow if Houston has more sacks than Dee Ford over the next three years. Plus I will let the OLB coach determine which player is going to be better for the Packers. I will be happy if we get Dee Ford as long as it is not one of our 1sts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 16 minutes ago, Donzo said: Then that's an easy pass. You seem to think they are similar talent, I would say they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman5252 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Justin Houston costs zero to acquire and has produced every single year of his career. His injury concerns are overstated with one missed season (16 games) in the past three years, and he still had 22.5 sacks in the past three years (which is more than Ford's entire career). He's also 2 years older than Ford. Houston hasn’t played 16 games in 5 years though. Do we want another Perry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Just now, Cpdaly23 said: If we never gave players contract extensions because they hadn’t produced monster numbers prior to a contract year, we would have never resigned Davonte Adams. Some players just take longer to hit their stride. Davante had two double digit TD seasons before we paid him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Nick Perry uses strength to get to the passer...Dee Ford uses speed. If either of them get hurt, they have issues because they don't have a multitude of moves or set-ups to counteract their efforts to get after the QB. If Perry was always healthy, he would be All-Pro every year, but he's not healthy. Ford seems to have been healthy over his career, so he's worth a lot more than Perry. The question I have is he worth a pick you would have to spend to get him, verses one of the Smith brothers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Just now, pacman5252 said: Houston hasn’t played 16 games in 5 years though. Do we want another Perry? Houston is still producing at a pro bowl level. Injury prone junk is baloney. He's an elite player when healthy, and he's been healthier than people give him credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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