e16bball Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 29 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: No, but we could have him in the slot and have Dunbar and Moreau outside. Moreau is much better outside than in the slot. If that's the case, we can (and likely will) still have Dunbar and Moreau outside if Norman is cut. Why would we force Moreau to stay inside at the much easier position to fill (slot CB) if he's better outside? Moreau is the answer to the "who replaces Norman on the outside" problem then, whether we kept Fuller or not. Trading Fuller just opened up a separate question of who replaces Fuller in the slot. 37 minutes ago, Woz said: There would also have been an extra third round pick last year, which could have been used on a corner or guard. True. I guess we could have used that pick on Isaac Yiadom, the only outside CB prospect taken within 70-80 picks of our 2018 3rd rounder (#78). If you feel comfortable in saying that Isaac Yiadom would have been the solution to the problem of who replaces Josh Norman next season, then I guess you're right. In the unlikely event that you wouldn't have been comfortable with the big I.Y. taking over as a starting outside CB, you also mentioned that if we hadn't done the trade, we could have packaged that 3rd with something (not sure what you had in mind) to move up and secure a different CB. But why would they have done that when they would've been going into the season with Josh Norman, Quinton Dunbar, Kendall Fuller, and Fabian Moreau? We would ostensibly have been set at CB for at least two seasons -- would we really have packaged multiple assets to move up for a 5th CB? I'm dubious. 51 minutes ago, Woz said: The short version is we traded two cheap players for one okay expensive player and then made that okay expensive player really expensive. Then he played okay for us in 10 games. Then he suffered a potentially career ending injury. 47 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: You forgot the part where we could have just kept the very expensive player we had in house instead of trading a 3rd and slot CB. Oh and giving said player up for nothing but a 3rd round comp pick. Again, I'm not arguing that the trade was a good one for us. It clearly turned out terribly. My only point is that the oft-repeated claims about how we'd be just fine cutting Josh Norman if only we still had Kendall Fuller are overblown. We'd have a really good slot CB (for another year) -- that's the only thing that would be different. We'd still be counting on Fabian Moreau (or a rookie or one of last year's picks) to step up on the outside in Norman's place. On the whole, as @MKnight82 said, I'm not really on board with just cutting Norman. I would be okay if we could trade him and get something back of actual value, though. Especially because after spending a good amount of time on Greedy Williams, I'm pretty much sold on him. But giving Norman away for nothing? Nah, let's wait it out for the trade deadline, see if somebody gets desperate. Particularly because at this point, we're not going to be doing anything of particular value with the cap space he'd open up anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, e16bball said: If that's the case, we can (and likely will) still have Dunbar and Moreau outside if Norman is cut. Why would we force Moreau to stay inside at the much easier position to fill (slot CB) if he's better outside? Moreau is the answer to the "who replaces Norman on the outside" problem then, whether we kept Fuller or not. Trading Fuller just opened up a separate question of who replaces Fuller in the slot. I would rather have Dunbar, Moreau, Fuller at this point than Norman, Dunbar Moreau. Not only because Fuller is younger and still has upside, but because Fuller is much better in the slot than Moreau (who I think is miscast in the slot and much better outside). We just signed DRC to be our new slot guy, I think we're admitting the Moreau in the slot experiment was a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, e16bball said: True. I guess we could have used that pick on Isaac Yiadom, the only outside CB prospect taken within 70-80 picks of our 2018 3rd rounder (#78). If you feel comfortable in saying that Isaac Yiadom would have been the solution to the problem of who replaces Josh Norman next season, then I guess you're right. In the unlikely event that you wouldn't have been comfortable with the big I.Y. taking over as a starting outside CB, you also mentioned that if we hadn't done the trade, we could have packaged that 3rd with something (not sure what you had in mind) to move up and secure a different CB. But why would they have done that when they would've been going into the season with Josh Norman, Quinton Dunbar, Kendall Fuller, and Fabian Moreau? We would ostensibly have been set at CB for at least two seasons -- would we really have packaged multiple assets to move up for a 5th CB? I'm dubious. Notice I did say that they could have drafted a guard (Orlando Brown? yes I know he's a tackle, but he would probably be better than Christian) as well because I saw the dearth of picks at CB. Another alternative would have been Malik Jefferson. Could have taken Rudolph with 74 and Brown 78. By giving it up, that was one less cheap player they could have gotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Yeah, I mean, I’d just cut him. I do like him but the celebrity thing really took precedence over his playing career and he hasn’t been the same since. We aren’t winning the super bowl this year and maybe it contributes to us losing another game or so which helps us in the long run of building this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 55 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: I would rather have Dunbar, Moreau, Fuller at this point than Norman, Dunbar Moreau. Not only because Fuller is younger and still has upside, but because Fuller is much better in the slot than Moreau (who I think is miscast in the slot and much better outside). We just signed DRC to be our new slot guy, I think we're admitting the Moreau in the slot experiment was a failure. I find this opinion that Moreau can’t be the answer in the slot a bit premature. Let’s not forget that in Fuller’s first year in the slot he was awful - worse than Moreau even as Fuller got benched - so, I expect Moreau to be better in his second year in the slot. That being said, I’m not sure he’s going to be “the best slot corner in the NFL great!” As Fuller was in his second year in the league, but it’s possible Moreau develops into one of the best slot corners in the NFL this year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 5 hours ago, e16bball said: On the whole, as @MKnight82 said, I'm not really on board with just cutting Norman. I would be okay if we could trade him and get something back of actual value, though. Especially because after spending a good amount of time on Greedy Williams, I'm pretty much sold on him. But giving Norman away for nothing? Nah, let's wait it out for the trade deadline, see if somebody gets desperate. Particularly because at this point, we're not going to be doing anything of particular value with the cap space he'd open up anyway. This is spot on. You trade him to a team that is desperate for secondary help. A team that still has visions of playoffs. And will be willing to part with an early Day 3 or a Day 2 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKellion Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I wonder,Everything I saw from Norman just made me shake my head most of the time.They even benched him in one game he was so horrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 15 hours ago, TKellion said: I wonder,Everything I saw from Norman just made me shake my head most of the time.They even benched him in one game he was so horrid. Saints game & Packers games he blew coverages which led to long TDs... awful, just awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mar29020 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 i dont think we should be cutting good players unless we have to and it is a last resort. we have to many holes right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, mar29020 said: i dont think we should be cutting good players unless we have to and it is a last resort. we have to many holes right now I hear you, but we need to continue with young players and cheaper vets so we can hopefully draft in the top 10 the next two years and get some studs in the 2020 & 2021 drafts. Norman is one of the guys that keeps us 7-9, but doesn't help us to 10-6 or 11-5. He's not an elite corner. He's a good corner making elite $. It's a bad contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I'm not just cutting Norman unless Baker is our 1st round pick. Now I will trade him for a 4th or 5h rounder. Agree to Disagree with anyone who doesn't feel the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 21 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: I'm not just cutting Norman unless Baker is our 1st round pick. Now I will trade him for a 4th or 5h rounder. Agree to Disagree with anyone who doesn't feel the same. I would say that we drafted Moreau - who was a first-round talent but fell two riujdw bc he tore his pec working out - Dunny played better than Norman last year before his shin injury and as you said we can draft a corner. We also have 3 young corners developing - Alexander, Stroman and Danny Johnson. Alexander probably would’ve been a mid-round pick in this draft if he didn't have to go into the supplemental draft last year, I think bc of eligibility issues. Preferably, I’d trade Norman to a contender. He deserves that too. I'd trade him to the Chiefs, Packers, Steelers, Seahawks, Chargers or Saints for a 3rd round pick. Heck, if even pay 1/3 of his salary to sweeten the deal for a better pick, so if pay $5 million of his salary to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: I'm not just cutting Norman unless Baker is our 1st round pick. Now I will trade him for a 4th or 5h rounder. Agree to Disagree with anyone who doesn't feel the same. If the 1st round falls where Baker is the 1st round pick, I'm not averse to this. Not sure I would really be thrilled about only getting a 5th for him, but I could understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mar29020 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 26 minutes ago, turtle28 said: I hear you, but we need to continue with young players and cheaper vets so we can hopefully draft in the top 10 the next two years and get some studs in the 2020 & 2021 drafts. Norman is one of the guys that keeps us 7-9, but doesn't help us to 10-6 or 11-5. He's not an elite corner. He's a good corner making elite $. It's a bad contract ha not if we trade away those picks to move up this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, mar29020 said: ha not if we trade away those picks to move up this year Well we may not. Tbd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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