2017 College Football/2018 Draft Prospect Thread

[ttitansfan4life]

1 hour ago, TitanRedd said:

Exactly we need edge rushers & Ilb

Weren’t you the one spouting off about how bad we need a 5T that can rush the passer?

[TitanRedd]

2 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said:

Weren’t you the one spouting off about how bad we need a 5T that can rush the passer?

Yeah we do need that to free up Orakpo but I was mainly crying at the beginning of the season when we were struggling to get a pass rush on teams. But Edge Rusher ILB & 5tech DE that can rush will do damage 

[TitanRedd]

2 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said:

Weren’t you the one spouting off about how bad we need a 5T that can rush the passer?

Oh & I wasn’t spouting I was crying it’s a big difference ??

[TitanSS]

3 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said:

Problem is, we have one DL that can rush the passer in Casey. Klug is gone now. Johnson and Jones are not pass-rushers. Unless we’re counting on a guy named David King to be relevant. We need guys on the DL who can rush the passer in the sub packages. Part of the reason why I like Taven Bryan so much.

How many teams interior defensive line have two guys who get after the passer like Casey? There are just not a lot of 300 lb guys who consistently get afyer the QB. I'm all for adding depth or a specialist, but I think Casey/Jones is a good duo on passing downs. Not something I would consider spending a 1st on. 

I think Jones has improved as a rusher but he's never going to be known for it.

[ttitansfan4life]

7 hours ago, TitanSS said:

How many teams interior defensive line have two guys who get after the passer like Casey? There are just not a lot of 300 lb guys who consistently get afyer the QB. I'm all for adding depth or a specialist, but I think Casey/Jones is a good duo on passing downs. Not something I would consider spending a 1st on. 

I think Jones has improved as a rusher but he's never going to be known for it.

That’s the thing though.... I don’t care what other teams have. Good teams find a way to get to the QB.  Our #s last year were skewed considering the amount LeBeau blitzed.  We need to find players who can consistently win 1 on 1s whether that be on the DL or OLB. I still see both as huge needs. You also call NT an overrated position. Well during Pees and LeBeau’s greatest 3-4 years, they’ve had dominant to damn good NTs. Look at Pees the past few seasons with Brandon Williams. Maybe this coaching staff finally puts Jones at a position I’ve been calling for since he was drafted.  That leaves us with I’m assuming Johnson at 5T. That’s a pretty good DL against the run. If we gonOLB/DL in the draft, I doubt they start year 1 regardless. So they’re going to be playing a lot in a sub package role. Personally I’m not a huge fan of the OLB prospects at 25. I feel Landry will be long gone. If I had to make a big board of who I’d feel would be A+ picks right now at 25, it would go(assuming guys like Edmunds and Smith are gone).....

1.) Harold Landry - If he’s there, we should be sprinting to the podium.

2.) Taven Bryan - I feel like he’s the perfect subpackage guy right now. Explosive who excels in a number of areas. May not be an everydown player year 1 but like I said, he doesn’t have to be with Jones and Johnson playing on early downs. 

3.) Leighton Vander Esch - Another guy I feel that may have a huge jump before next months draft.  Been hearing more and more about how the draft community loves him.

Then it starts to get a little hectic for me. There’s guys like Rashaan Evans, Arden Key, Sam Hubbard, etc. None of those guys excite me at 25. I know we’re not getting a perfect prospect at 25 but those guys lack some serious special traits. Evans to me just looks average.  I don’t see the ILB Bama prospect like Foster or Mosley. Hubbard to me seems like a guy who can be a solid player but never really get to being much better. Key has A LOT of talent and special traits. Problem is, what the hell happened last season and before last season to take that leave of absence where you basically quit on your team? That’s a huge red flag to me. On the other hand, I feel like if he was fully healthy and put in the offseason work, he puts up a damn good year and likely is a top 10 pick that everyone was talking about before this past season. The way he quit and let his body go(I think he said he got up to almost 280) is just pathetic. I just see Robinson/Vrabel throwing him off the board completely after that. 

Then after that, you get to the sleeper types. He’s actually starting to get a lot of attention now but Darius Leonard is a kid I’ve taking a liking to. Would Robinson shock the draft and take him at 25? He to me reminds me so much of Byard. That small school kid who has to outwork everyone else to get noticed. Thing is, he shows up big time when playing big schools just like Byard did. Byard was a late riser and it seemed like we were one of the few teams to fall in love with him. Obviously 3rd round and and the 25th pick are two completely different areas but does Robinson make that pick knowing we struck gold before with a kid like that? Robinson has taking a liking to small school kids. Leonard IMO will be a star in this league with an NFL lifting program and the right coaching, late bloomer out of high school as he was only 180 coming out. I think he’s perfect for what we want/need.

[TitanSlim]

7 minutes ago, ttitansfan4life said:

That’s the thing though.... I don’t care what other teams have. Good teams find a way to get to the QB.  Our #s last year were skewed considering the amount LeBeau blitzed.  We need to find players who can consistently win 1 on 1s whether that be on the DL or OLB. I still see both as huge needs. You also call NT an overrated position. Well during Pees and LeBeau’s greatest 3-4 years, they’ve had dominant to damn good NTs. Look at Pees the past few seasons with Brandon Williams. Maybe this coaching staff finally puts Jones at a position I’ve been calling for since he was drafted.  That leaves us with I’m assuming Johnson at 5T. That’s a pretty good DL against the run. If we gonOLB/DL in the draft, I doubt they start year 1 regardless. So they’re going to be playing a lot in a sub package role. Personally I’m not a huge fan of the OLB prospects at 25. I feel Landry will be long gone. If I had to make a big board of who I’d feel would be A+ picks right now at 25, it would go(assuming guys like Edmunds and Smith are gone).....

1.) Harold Landry - If he’s there, we should be sprinting to the podium.

2.) Taven Bryan - I feel like he’s the perfect subpackage guy right now. Explosive who excels in a number of areas. May not be an everydown player year 1 but like I said, he doesn’t have to be with Jones and Johnson playing on early downs. 

3.) Leighton Vander Esch - Another guy I feel that may have a huge jump before next months draft.  Been hearing more and more about how the draft community loves him.

Then it starts to get a little hectic for me. There’s guys like Rashaan Evans, Arden Key, Sam Hubbard, etc. None of those guys excite me at 25. I know we’re not getting a perfect prospect at 25 but those guys lack some serious special traits. Evans to me just looks average.  I don’t see the ILB Bama prospect like Foster or Mosley. Hubbard to me seems like a guy who can be a solid player but never really get to being much better. Key has A LOT of talent and special traits. Problem is, what the hell happened last season and before last season to take that leave of absence where you basically quit on your team? That’s a huge red flag to me. On the other hand, I feel like if he was fully healthy and put in the offseason work, he puts up a damn good year and likely is a top 10 pick that everyone was talking about before this past season. The way he quit and let his body go(I think he said he got up to almost 280) is just pathetic. I just see Robinson/Vrabel throwing him off the board completely after that. 

Then after that, you get to the sleeper types. He’s actually starting to get a lot of attention now but Darius Leonard is a kid I’ve taking a liking to. Would Robinson shock the draft and take him at 25? He to me reminds me so much of Byard. That small school kid who has to outwork everyone else to get noticed. Thing is, he shows up big time when playing big schools just like Byard did. Byard was a late riser and it seemed like we were one of the few teams to fall in love with him. Obviously 3rd round and and the 25th pick are two completely different areas but does Robinson make that pick knowing we struck gold before with a kid like that? Robinson has taking a liking to small school kids. Leonard IMO will be a star in this league with an NFL lifting program and the right coaching, late bloomer out of high school as he was only 180 coming out. I think he’s perfect for what we want/need.

This is why I'm not against trading up this year if Landry slips past 15. With teams like the Lions and Rams ahead of us, I'd rather make a move to go get him instead of waiting and seeing him snatched right before we pick.

That Kevin Dodd pick really hurt us because it's left us in a dire situation at our OLB depth.

[TitanRedd]

3 hours ago, TitanSlim said:

This is why I'm not against trading up this year if Landry slips past 15. With teams like the Lions and Rams ahead of us, I'd rather make a move to go get him instead of waiting and seeing him snatched right before we pick.

That Kevin Dodd pick really hurt us because it's left us in a dire situation at our OLB depth.

Not gone say that because Dodd & morgan play the Elephant role in our defense which is really a DE. But I’m praying this guy breaks the 2nd round bust curse we have ?

[ragevsuall17]

20 hours ago, TitanSS said:

I don't really consider DL a weakness at all. In the age of the nickel defense that we are in now a NT is incredibly overrated amd we have Austin Johnson who I think can play it well as well as play DT in the nickel. Honestly, I think he and DaQuan Jones can every position along the DL. 

I'm more confident in our DL than WRs. 

OLB and ILB are the biggest needs I see. OG and possibly WR behind them. 

I states the front 7 as a wholeay be the biggest weakness on the team (WRs may be up there as well, with not a whole lot behind a good #2 and 2 very unproven players).

We need an ILB to possibly start this year, and to at least provide the run game some stoutness at the 2nd level, and definitely a starter going forward (even if Jayon ends up winning a spot, Woodyard is getting up there in age)... OLB needs some quality youth infusion, and both Rak and Morgan are FAs next offseason... And DL suddenly has no depth behind what looks like a solid trio of starters. Casey has always been a stud, but the rotation has consistently made this group one of our best.

A little FA fetched, but you can realistically count 7 spots in the front 7 that could be upgraded... 3 depth spots on the DL, 2 @ ILB, and two at OLB.

[TitanSS]

54 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

I states the front 7 as a wholeay be the biggest weakness on the team (WRs may be up there as well, with not a whole lot behind a good #2 and 2 very unproven players).

We need an ILB to possibly start this year, and to at least provide the run game some stoutness at the 2nd level, and definitely a starter going forward (even if Jayon ends up winning a spot, Woodyard is getting up there in age)... OLB needs some quality youth infusion, and both Rak and Morgan are FAs next offseason... And DL suddenly has no depth behind what looks like a solid trio of starters. Casey has always been a stud, but the rotation has consistently made this group one of our best.

A little FA fetched, but you can realistically count 7 spots in the front 7 that could be upgraded... 3 depth spots on the DL, 2 @ ILB, and two at OLB.

I'm all for upgrading depth along the interior DL, but we're talking 4th and 5th round picks or later. That I'm fine with. A 1st or 2nd round pick on our #4 interior DL simply because DaQuan Jones is only okay at rushing the passer? No thanks.

A 290 lb pass-rushing specialist in the 4th round who's probably not going to be good against the run? Sign me up.

[ragevsuall17]

3 hours ago, TitanSS said:

I'm all for upgrading depth along the interior DL, but we're talking 4th and 5th round picks or later. That I'm fine with. A 1st or 2nd round pick on our #4 interior DL simply because DaQuan Jones is only okay at rushing the passer? No thanks.

A 290 lb pass-rushing specialist in the 4th round who's probably not going to be good against the run? Sign me up.

I definitely have a different view... I'd have no problem taking a DL in the first, depending on how the board shakes out, of course.

On the DL, its all about rotation (with increased snaps as earned.) Last year Casey played his highest snap count (79%) and Jones was on his usual pace (60ish%)... Say they continue their tend from the past 2 seasons, they'll play about 135% combined snaps. You probably have about 295% combined DL stats (staring at the baseline 300%, subtracting for 2 man lines and adding for goal or short to goal formations, etc). That means that even if Johnson takes a huge step forward and plays close to the 60% snaps we'd expect from a starter (he played 30% last year), we still have about 1100 snaps to fill on the DL (about a 100% allotment, could be less could be more depending on formation spread).

Currently we have King and no one else. So I definitely see a need to find depth... And the amount of possible snaps available erases the fact of drafting a 4th DL in the first.

Having said that, I recognize ILB and OLB are more likely targets in the 1st 2 rounds (draft board values being equal). But the value of a DL at 25 is certainly justified (just like offering Suh a 12+M contract was justified).

[TitanSS]

Edit: Just saw you said you were taking into account the 2 man fronts. 

Either way an ILB playing 100% or close to it or an edge who will starting next year trumps a #4 DL to me easily. 

Saying it can be justified is a lot different than saying it is a need. I would say several positions are quite a bitore of a need than DL so unless an interior DL is just a lot better of a player I don't see the point.

Suh was a lot better than any OLB or ILB available, hence why he would be justified.

[ragevsuall17]

16 hours ago, TitanSS said:

Either way an ILB playing 100% or close to it or an edge who will starting next year trumps a #4 DL to me easily. 

It's conceivable that the staff is looking for the new ILB to take over the Woodyard role next season... while moving Woodyard to the Williamson role, splitting snaps with Jayon.  Woodyard took the most snaps in our front 7 by far last season (over 1k snaps, over 93% of snaps)... and I have a hard time seeing any ILB rookie not named Roquan taking on that kind of role next year (I also love Edmonds and would love to trade up for his kinda potential if he fell into a tradeable range, but I think he'll take a year or two to develop into that consistent 3 down LB... but I do think he'll be great out of the gate, even if he only plays 50-60% of snaps to start with).  I like Vander Esch at 25 as well, but I see him as a poor man's Edmonds... I don't think he's ready for that full time role out the gate.  Evans would be a slight reach at 25, but I think he would be a really good fit for our defense, so I wouldn't mind it.  Bottom line, I think we see whoever we draft in the first to probably play about 60% of defensive snaps, whether he be on the line, right behind at LB, or even potentially at S.  

Going back  the ILB discussion, there appears to be some good depth at ILB this year with some some good prospects that will be available outside the 1st.  I'm starting to really like Leonard from SC St. in the 2nd (eventhugh he's smaller than Cyp).  I also love Jefferson's athletic potential... but I'm trying to not let that distract me like I have before... his play just hasn't matched his potential and athleticism... and I just don't think we have the luxury to completely miss on another 2nd rounder (no more Dodd!!).  Jewell and Griffin look like they could be amazing finds in the 3rd as well. 

Going back to Cyp... the broken record has to keep going, right... but I still think he can make the move inside.  I keep seeing posts about 4-3 over concepts that we used under LeBeau... which we did from time to time... but we also saw variations of a 4-6 D, especially on running downs and against running teams.  We may not have had the 6 people on the line, but we often played with 5 on the line (the OLBs acting like DEs, with 3 interior DL)... Cyp cemented that 4-6 look by playing in the box frequently.  No matter the formation, LeBeau's zone blitz concepts meant anyone could blitz at any given point and anyone could drop into coverage as well... but the thing is Cyp already has experience playing a hybrid LB role (the potential to land Bettcher a while ago really got my hopes up in regards to that particular move).  Anyway, I hope that can be an option for Pees and Vrabel if they miss out on the ILBs and take a S rated higher on their board instead of reaching for a true ILB.

[TitanSS]

23 hours ago, ragevsuall17 said:

On the DL, its all about rotation (with increased snaps as earned.) Last year Casey played his highest snap count (79%) and Jones was on his usual pace (60ish%)... Say they continue their tend from the past 2 seasons, they'll play about 135% combined snaps. You probably have about 295% combined DL stats (staring at the baseline 300%, subtracting for 2 man lines and adding for goal or short to goal formations, etc). That means that even if Johnson takes a huge step forward and plays close to the 60% snaps we'd expect from a starter (he played 30% last year), we still have about 1100 snaps to fill on the DL (about a 100% allotment, could be less could be more depending on formation spread).

 

I went back and looked at our DL stats and we don't have close to 295% combined DL snaps. Given 1090 defensive snaps in 2017,  we had 2406 DL snaps or  ~220%. DaQuan Jones was probably on pace to play about 60% of the snaps prior to his injury, but only ended up playing about 40% of them.

Jurrell Casey - 866
DaQuan Jones - 436
Sylvester Williams - 349
Karl Klug - 325
Austin Johnson - 319
David King - 111

We lost Williams and Klug this year leaving about 674 snaps to be made up, but Johnson will probably take the majority of Williams snaps and Jones should see an increase in snaps if he is healthy. I'm not seeing the 1100 snaps for a #4 DL anywhere. Where are you getting that figure? If Casey plays about 75-80% and Jones and Johnson are playing around 60%, we're probably looking at ~200-300 snaps for the remainder of our depth guys after the top 3. We just haven't used 3 down linemen near enough to get those kind of snaps out of a depth player. 

I'm guessing your numbers were based off of 3200+ DL snaps based on you estimating 295%, but looking at the snap counts that doesn't look accurate. Where are you getting that number or was it just an estimate?

If we had signed Suh, we'd probably be looking at him and Casey playing about 75% of the snaps, Jones playing about 40%, and Johnson only playing about 30% again.

[ttitansfan4life]

On 3/31/2018 at 6:31 AM, TitanSlim said:

This is why I'm not against trading up this year if Landry slips past 15. With teams like the Lions and Rams ahead of us, I'd rather make a move to go get him instead of waiting and seeing him snatched right before we pick.

That Kevin Dodd pick really hurt us because it's left us in a dire situation at our OLB depth.

Yea I wouldn’t be against moving up in order to snag Edmunds, Landry, or Smith. 

[ragevsuall17]

9 hours ago, TitanSS said:

I went back and looked at our DL stats and we don't have close to 295% combined DL snaps. Given 1090 defensive snaps in 2017,  we had 2406 DL snaps or  ~220%. DaQuan Jones was probably on pace to play about 60% of the snaps prior to his injury, but only ended up playing about 40% of them.

Jurrell Casey - 866
DaQuan Jones - 436
Sylvester Williams - 349
Karl Klug - 325
Austin Johnson - 319
David King - 111

We lost Williams and Klug this year leaving about 674 snaps to be made up, but Johnson will probably take the majority of Williams snaps and Jones should see an increase in snaps if he is healthy. I'm not seeing the 1100 snaps for a #4 DL anywhere. Where are you getting that figure? If Casey plays about 75-80% and Jones and Johnson are playing around 60%, we're probably looking at ~200-300 snaps for the remainder of our depth guys after the top 3. We just haven't used 3 down linemen near enough to get those kind of snaps out of a depth player. 

I'm guessing your numbers were based off of 3200+ DL snaps based on you estimating 295%, but looking at the snap counts that doesn't look accurate. Where are you getting that number or was it just an estimate?

If we had signed Suh, we'd probably be looking at him and Casey playing about 75% of the snaps, Jones playing about 40%, and Johnson only playing about 30% again.

Yeah... Was just estimating bases on ~1100 defensive snaps. 

I love pro football reference, but noticed their snap count figures are off. Last time I ended up using NFL.com or someone else... Not sure which site you're using. Seems strange were missing 600 snaps from the DL... I didn't think we played a 2-4 Nickel or 2-3 Dime that often... Especially accounting for snaps we being an extra (or two) DL, ie goal to go scenarios. Wonder if some of DL snaps officially went to our edge guys (Dodd, Morgan, Rak, Walden?)

If that is the case, I'm sure LeBeau was trying to maximize the rushers effectiveness, playing to strengths... But also probably trying to mask the lack of a pass rush from the DL. Not that the Hankins signing will help that issue... But it would still address a need with one of the better options available...