2017 College Football/2018 Draft Prospect Thread

[TitanRedd]

21 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

And I'm sure wants to be paid $6-8 Million a year. That's Demarco money. That's feature back money. An 4th round draft pick on a RB would be a better investment. I trust Robinson to find a guy to fit that role, to compliment Henry as the Feature. Also we do have Muhammad and Fluellen.  Not two backs to bank on but capable guys maybe? At least Flu has shown ability to play in the league.

I’m curios bout deon Lewis I’ll give him 5mill a yr or something like 3yrs 18 mill 7mill G 

[SerenityNow]

2 hours ago, Andrei01 said:

Saw some breakdown clips of Richie James, and damn, I like him. Local kid from MTSU, already said he looks up to Byard and has a visit scheduled, maybe Robinson's guy that got him into Byard will do his job again. Quick, has some speed to take the top off, looks like a pretty sharp route runner and perhaps the most impressing thing about him is that his catching radius seems much bigger than his frame would suggest. For that slot/gadget role, as a mid round pick, I think his name belongs in the mix.

Richie is awesome. As an MT alum, I saw a lot of him and actually had a class with him. He's a good guy, and a pretty damn capable player. MT's offense was in shambles this year in good part because he was out the majority of the year (along with our starting QB). You're spot on. He'd be a great slot player for us, and a guy like him is the exact type of player we need to add to our receiver group. The best thing going for us I think is the fact that he was hurt most of this year, so he could fall into probably the 4th-5th round maybe further and be really nice value for us.

[vikes635]

On 3/4/2018 at 10:35 PM, Ockham said:

Would rather save the dr!!aft pick and get FA Jerick McKinnon.  His combine results:

• 40 YARD DASH: 4.41 SEC
• BENCH PRESS: 32 REPS
• VERTICAL JUMP: 40.5 INCH
• BROAD JUMP: 132.0 INCH
• 3 CONE DRILL: 6.83 SEC
• 20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.12 SEC

McKinnon is a stud, I don't want to loose him!!

 

[Ockham]

7 hours ago, KingTitan said:

And I'm sure wants to be paid $6-8 Million a year. That's Demarco money. That's feature back money. An 4th round draft pick on a RB would be a better investment. I trust Robinson to find a guy to fit that role, to compliment Henry as the Feature. Also we do have Muhammad and Fluellen.  Not two backs to bank on but capable guys maybe? At least Flu has shown ability to play in the league.

He can want whatever he wants.  He has not shown himself to be a feature back.  Don’t think he’s broken 1000yds rushing/receiving combined in any year.  He’ll take 2.75mil a year and like it. Damn it. ?

[Chocolateman78]

10 hours ago, SerenityNow said:

Richie is awesome. As an MT alum, I saw a lot of him and actually had a class with him. He's a good guy, and a pretty damn capable player. MT's offense was in shambles this year in good part because he was out the majority of the year (along with our starting QB). You're spot on. He'd be a great slot player for us, and a guy like him is the exact type of player we need to add to our receiver group. The best thing going for us I think is the fact that he was hurt most of this year, so he could fall into probably the 4th-5th round maybe further and be really nice value for us.

How is he any different than the slot/gadget guy we drafted last year in the 3rd round?

I don't understand that. I feel like people are already writing off Taywan Taylor.

I'm much more interested in seeing him with a whole season of experience,a full offseason of work, and in a offense that should do more to compliment him than I am on spending a mid round flyer on another undersized WR.
 

[SerenityNow]

59 minutes ago, Chocolateman78 said:

How is he any different than the slot/gadget guy we drafted last year in the 3rd round?

I don't understand that. I feel like people are already writing off Taywan Taylor.

I'm much more interested in seeing him with a whole season of experience,a full offseason of work, and in a offense that should do more to compliment him than I am on spending a mid round flyer on another undersized WR.
 

He's a similar player to Taywan, but since when is adding more speed to the team a bad thing?

Nobody is writing Taywan off but to say that he's immediately going to come in and be a big time slot receiver for us seems a bit naive. He showed some flashes last year, but he also showed (especially in the Pats game) that he wasn't ready to take on a full load yet, mainly by his struggles catching balls in traffic. We should add some competition in the slot, because Taywan is all that we have there right now.

Just because we drafted Taywan in the 3rd round last year doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking to add depth/competition at his position. Especially if Richie is there in the 5th round. Richie runs great routes, has great hands, and would add more speed to our team as a whole. What's the risk in the 5th round?

[Chocolateman78]

Not saying its bad,  you said he's the exact player we need to add to the WR group, and my question is how is he different than what we have? If competition is the name of the game, I'd argue a veteran provides more immediate competition to Taylor than a undersized day 3 pick. I'd also argue that part of the problem last year was that too many of our WR were slot recievers. Decker certainly was, Davis can play it, and I think Mathews is more productive there. If anything, we need more guys who can make plays outside the numbers.

I'm just think the pick could be better allocated else where, or at least to a different type of WR. For example I wouldn't argue against a big Auden Tate type of WR, because we don't have a WR over 6'3 on the roster. Even Delanie is limited as a redzone threat being only 6'0. A guy who can win jump and win jump ball and redzone matchups would be a nice addition. Given his 4.7 40 time, Auden Tate might actually be that guy.

[SerenityNow]

6 minutes ago, Chocolateman78 said:

Not saying its bad,  you said he's the exact player we need to add to the WR group, and my question is how is he different than what we have? If competition is the name of the game, I'd argue a veteran provides more immediate competition to Taylor than a undersized day 3 pick. I'd also argue that part of the problem last year was that too many of our WR were slot recievers. Decker certainly was, Davis can play it, and I think Mathews is more productive there. If anything, we need more guys who can make plays outside the numbers.

I'm just think the pick could be better allocated else where, or at least to a different type of WR. For example I wouldn't argue against a big Auden Tate type of WR, because we don't have a WR over 6'3 on the roster. Even Delanie is limited as a redzone threat being only 6'0. A guy who can win jump and win jump ball and redzone matchups would be a nice addition. Given his 4.7 40 time, Auden Tate might actually be that guy.

I hear ya and that makes sense. Part of me feels like we could use another bigger target as well, but I also feel like with where our offense is more than likely heading with it being more predicated on quick passing and intermediate routes a quicker guy like Richie could fit well in that more so than a bigger receiver. I think as a whole JR's WR philosophy just doesn't necessarily align itself with bigger bodied receivers, because they usually end up having limited route trees and limited versatility to only be able to play outside. JR seems to look more for those guys that are more crisp in their route running and can be moved around to various spots inside or out. I definitely know what you mean with getting another red zone threat, that can win those jump ball situations, but there's more than one way to skin a cat in the red zone. Marcus could end up having just as much success in the red zone throwing slants to quick shifty receivers as he could throwing fades up to big bodied receivers. I just think as a whole the biggest thing we need is more receivers that can get YAC, and take those quick passes to the house. Richie did a ton of that at MT.  He also played all over the field inside/out/in the backfield. I get the idea of wanting to add something to the group that we don't already have, but I'd personally take Richie's versatility, YAC ability, and ability to win in a multitude of ways on his routes over a bigger receiver that's taller and can only win in jump ball situations. Not saying Auden Tate is that guy (I honestly haven't watched film on him yet) but we had that type of player in DGB and Jon traded him away.

 

 

[Chocolateman78]

30 minutes ago, SerenityNow said:

I hear ya and that makes sense. Part of me feels like we could use another bigger target as well, but I also feel like with where our offense is more than likely heading with it being more predicated on quick passing and intermediate routes a quicker guy like Richie could fit well in that more so than a bigger receiver. I think as a whole JR's WR philosophy just doesn't necessarily align itself with bigger bodied receivers, because they usually end up having limited route trees and limited versatility to only be able to play outside. JR seems to look more for those guys that are more crisp in their route running and can be moved around to various spots inside or out. I definitely know what you mean with getting another red zone threat, that can win those jump ball situations, but there's more than one way to skin a cat in the red zone. Marcus could end up having just as much success in the red zone throwing slants to quick shifty receivers as he could throwing fades up to big bodied receivers. I just think as a whole the biggest thing we need is more receivers that can get YAC, and take those quick passes to the house. Richie did a ton of that at MT.  He also played all over the field inside/out/in the backfield. I get the idea of wanting to add something to the group that we don't already have, but I'd personally take Richie's versatility, YAC ability, and ability to win in a multitude of ways on his routes over a bigger receiver that's taller and can only win in jump ball situations. Not saying Auden Tate is that guy (I honestly haven't watched film on him yet) but we had that type of player in DGB and Jon traded him away.

 

 

DGB got traded because he was bad at football. Which is why he was out of the league in two years. He wasn't at all like Tate, save being tall. 

[Chocolateman78]

13 hours ago, KingTitan said:

And I'm sure wants to be paid $6-8 Million a year. That's Demarco money. That's feature back money. An 4th round draft pick on a RB would be a better investment. I trust Robinson to find a guy to fit that role, to compliment Henry as the Feature. Also we do have Muhammad and Fluellen.  Not two backs to bank on but capable guys maybe? At least Flu has shown ability to play in the league.

Him saying he wants to be a feature back is all fine and dandy... Problem is he had ample opportunity to be that guy in Minnesota and failed. The market will not pay him near that. Teams have learned, nobody will pay him 6-8 mil a year to a back who averaged 3.8 a carry. Every GM in the league thinks a 4th round pick on a RB is a better investment than. Teams learned from that Lamar Miller deal. I think its more likely McKinnon gets 3-4 million if he's lucky at the beginning of FA. 

[titansNvolsR#1]

I don't want to spend a Day 1 or 2 pick on RB, but if John Kelly is there in the 6th or 7th, I'd start to be intrigued. Don't think he's a feature back in any way, but could be a solid option in a Clement role.

[SerenityNow]

2 hours ago, Chocolateman78 said:

DGB got traded because he was bad at football. Which is why he was out of the league in two years. He wasn't at all like Tate, save being tall. 

Several of us have had the DGB discussion before, so it's pointless to get into two years later. Like I said, I haven't watched Tate's tape yet, so I can't comment on him specifically and wasn't trying to compare him to DGB. I just meant a lot of taller receivers fall into that similar DGB mold where all they offer is a jump ball/big red zone target and that's it, so their NFL prospects are limited because they can't find a way to separate at this level. I just don't think Jon covets those types of receivers that can only offer the team one skill set. If there's a smaller quick receiver on the board that can win with a multitude of routes and catches the ball well I think Jon is picking that guy 100 times out of 100 vs a big tall guy that's only production comes off of red zone targets because his route tree is limited.  I could be wrong, but based off of his history so far and what he's said that he values in receivers, I really don't see Jon drafting a receiver based off of the sole premise that we need a bigger receiver in our wideout room. He's not a Height-Weight-Speed GM like Webster was.

Honestly, I don't know why we're even talking about this. Corey Davis is 6'3" and is plenty capable of being a great red zone target on jump balls for us. We're pretty much going back and forth over an inch.

[Chocolateman78]

I don't get how you think that Jon only wants small quick WRs. Taywan is the only WR who fits that mold that he's brought in. Douglas and Weems don't count imo. Decker was a bigger WR, tajae is 6'2. Davis 6'3.

 

Also again on DGB, he didn't fail because he was one dimensional, he failed because he was bad at football. He had no dimensions. I just dont think that because Robinson banished a big WR means the he doesn't favor that type of player. He favors players who are dedicated to their craft. That wasnt DGB. So if Tate is a lazy WR who won't work to hone his game, I agree. If you think JROB just doesn't want big tall WRs as a general principle, I disagree. 

[SerenityNow]

3 hours ago, Chocolateman78 said:

I don't get how you think that Jon only wants small quick WRs. Taywan is the only WR who fits that mold that he's brought in. Douglas and Weems don't count imo. Decker was a bigger WR, tajae is 6'2. Davis 6'3.

 

Also again on DGB, he didn't fail because he was one dimensional, he failed because he was bad at football. He had no dimensions. I just dont think that because Robinson banished a big WR means the he doesn't favor that type of player. He favors players who are dedicated to their craft. That wasnt DGB. So if Tate is a lazy WR who won't work to hone his game, I agree. If you think JROB just doesn't want big tall WRs as a general principle, I disagree. 

I never said Jon wants only small quick WRs. I said he wants versatile receivers that run good routes and have good hands. I said that a lot of your bigger taller receivers are limited because of their route trees. You said that you wanted a bigger Auden Tate type of wide receiver that was over 6'3" and I just said that a lot of those types of players don't tend to fit Jon's philosophy because their route trees are usually limited to red zone and jump ball targets, because they can't get separation. They're not usually versatile enough to play multiple WR positions which Jon seems to covet. If there was a 6'4" or taller receiver in this draft that ran a multitude of routes and played outside and in the slot I don't think Jon would have any problem drafting him, because that guy can win in a multitude of ways and can give the team more than a one dimensional red zone role. Guys over 6'3" that can play inside or out and run the full route tree don't come around very often though if at all.

Corey is a perfect example of this. He's a big receiver that can play outside or in the slot, can run the full route tree, and has great hands. Jon's "general principle" is to not to draft one dimensional players, and a lot of receivers above 6'3" tend to fall into that category. It's not because Jon is avoiding those bigger guys it's just a natural factor of being that big. A lot of those guys get by on their size in college rather than their ability to win with route running and technique. Regardless of size he looks for those core values of solid route running, versatility to play multiple positions, and good hands in his receivers. My point was that he'd draft a smaller receiver that had those core values over drafting a taller receiver just based off of the sole premise that we "need a bigger target."

[Chocolateman78]

2 hours ago, SerenityNow said:

I never said Jon wants only small quick WRs. I said he wants versatile receivers that run good routes and have good hands. I said that a lot of your bigger taller receivers are limited because of their route trees. You said that you wanted a bigger Auden Tate type of wide receiver that was over 6'3" and I just said that a lot of those types of players don't tend to fit Jon's philosophy because their route trees are usually limited to red zone and jump ball targets, because they can't get separation. They're not usually versatile enough to play multiple WR positions which Jon seems to covet. If there was a 6'4" or taller receiver in this draft that ran a multitude of routes and played outside and in the slot I don't think Jon would have any problem drafting him, because that guy can win in a multitude of ways and can give the team more than a one dimensional red zone role. Guys over 6'3" that can play inside or out and run the full route tree don't come around very often though if at all.

Corey is a perfect example of this. He's a big receiver that can play outside or in the slot, can run the full route tree, and has great hands. Jon's "general principle" is to not to draft one dimensional players, and a lot of receivers above 6'3" tend to fall into that category. It's not because Jon is avoiding those bigger guys it's just a natural factor of being that big. A lot of those guys get by on their size in college rather than their ability to win with route running and technique. Regardless of size he looks for those core values of solid route running, versatility to play multiple positions, and good hands in his receivers. My point was that he'd draft a smaller receiver that had those core values over drafting a taller receiver just based off of the sole premise that we "need a bigger target."

I disagree on your stereotypes about bigger WR's as well as parts of what you believe Jon Robinson philosophy on them is. However I do agree with the bolded. And this discussion began on Richie James. Tell me again how he is the perfect addition to the WR corp given he's too small to play play multiple positions, he's not a polished route runner, and I don't see scouts raving about his hands. So why is he perfect? Especially when we have a bigger more polished version of him already on the roster in Taylor? 

On top of that I'd argue that two of the 3 WR's J Rob has drafted don't fit your metric. The knock on Taylor coming out was his limited route tree in WKU's offense, his suspect hands (he was considered a body catcher) and that he was a slot WR only. That goes against philosophy. Despite having excellent production and rave reviews about his hands and route running ability, The knock on Tajae was that he was limited positionally because lacked the girth to play the X and beat press, but wasn't shifty enough to play in the slot. That in theory, makes him strictly the "Z" reciever, the guy who plays off line and typically is the motion man, so as so to hide his inability to beat press consistently. Davis is the only guy who fits your metric, which makes sense seeing how he was the top WR taken in the draft last year.

To clarify, IMO a big WR is 6'2 and over and 215lbs and bigger. I don't know why you keep making it about 6'3 and above. I only brought 6'3 up as a way of saying we don't have many WR's on the roster who can win 50/50 ball situations. Davis is really the only one. And if you don't think every GM in the league values guys who can win jump balls/contested catches in the redzone, or anywhere else on the field for that matter, then we can't have a discussion anymore. 

I'll tell you why I think a bigger WR is better... We've been clamoring for an effective vertical passing game for years. And while stretching the defense is important. Everyone seems to want to fill that with a speed guy. 4.4 40 or better. I prefer a Nuk Hopkins/ Alshon Jefferey type. Mariota doesn't have the arm strength to be the guy who throws it up and lets a speedy guy 'go get it' (Not to mention that when he misses, he tends to miss high). Because of that I advocate for a guy who can get you those chuck plays by jumping over DBs and being tough at the catch point. Separation happens two ways, people only think about the running away from DBs. If I can jump and high point a ball you can't reach, then I've created separation no matter how fast I am. For the record, I only mentioned Tate because I was watching a vid on him when I originally replied