TitanRedd Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, Chocolateman78 said: I disagree on your stereotypes about bigger WR's as well as parts of what you believe Jon Robinson philosophy on them is. However I do agree with the bolded. And this discussion began on Richie James. Tell me again how he is the perfect addition to the WR corp given he's too small to play play multiple positions, he's not a polished route runner, and I don't see scouts raving about his hands. So why is he perfect? Especially when we have a bigger more polished version of him already on the roster in Taylor? On top of that I'd argue that two of the 3 WR's J Rob has drafted don't fit your metric. The knock on Taylor coming out was his limited route tree in WKU's offense, his suspect hands (he was considered a body catcher) and that he was a slot WR only. That goes against philosophy. Despite having excellent production and rave reviews about his hands and route running ability, The knock on Tajae was that he was limited positionally because lacked the girth to play the X and beat press, but wasn't shifty enough to play in the slot. That in theory, makes him strictly the "Z" reciever, the guy who plays off line and typically is the motion man, so as so to hide his inability to beat press consistently. Davis is the only guy who fits your metric, which makes sense seeing how he was the top WR taken in the draft last year. IMO a big WR is 6'2 and over and 215lbs and bigger. I don't know why you keep making it about 6'3 and above. I only brought 6'3 up as a way of saying we don't have many WR's on the roster who can win jumpball situations. Davis is really the only one. And if you don't think every GM in the league values guys who can win jump balls/contested catches in the redzone, or anywhere else on the field for that matter, then we can't have a discussion anymore. I'll tell you why I think a bigger WR is better... We've been clamoring for an effective vertical passing game for years. And while stretching the defense is important. Everyone seems to want to fill that with a speed guy. 4.4 40 or better. I prefer a Nuk Hopkins/ Alshon Jefferey type. Mariota doesn't have the arm strength to be the guy who throws it up and lets a speedy guy 'go get it' (Not to mention that when he misses, he tends to miss high). Because of that I advocate for a guy who can get you those chuck plays by jumping over DBs and being tough at the catch point. Separation happens two ways, people only think about the running away from DBs. If I can jump and high point a ball you can't reach, then I've created separation no matter how fast I am. For the record, I only mentioned Tate because I was watching a vid on him when I originally replied I agree i rather have a big wide receiver with a wide catch radius & can go up & get the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerenityNow Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Chocolateman78 said: I disagree on your stereotypes about bigger WR's as well as parts of what you believe Jon Robinson philosophy on them is. However I do agree with the bolded. And this discussion began on Richie James. Tell me again how he is the perfect addition to the WR corp given he's too small to play play multiple positions, he's not a polished route runner, and I don't see scouts raving about his hands. So why is he perfect? Especially when we have a bigger more polished version of him already on the roster in Taylor? On top of that I'd argue that two of the 3 WR's J Rob has drafted don't fit your metric. The knock on Taylor coming out was his limited route tree in WKU's offense, his suspect hands (he was considered a body catcher) and that he was a slot WR only. That goes against philosophy. Despite having excellent production and rave reviews about his hands and route running ability, The knock on Tajae was that he was limited positionally because lacked the girth to play the X and beat press, but wasn't shifty enough to play in the slot. That in theory, makes him strictly the "Z" reciever, the guy who plays off line and typically is the motion man, so as so to hide his inability to beat press consistently. Davis is the only guy who fits your metric, which makes sense seeing how he was the top WR taken in the draft last year. To clarify, IMO a big WR is 6'2 and over and 215lbs and bigger. I don't know why you keep making it about 6'3 and above. I only brought 6'3 up as a way of saying we don't have many WR's on the roster who can win 50/50 ball situations. Davis is really the only one. And if you don't think every GM in the league values guys who can win jump balls/contested catches in the redzone, or anywhere else on the field for that matter, then we can't have a discussion anymore. I'll tell you why I think a bigger WR is better... We've been clamoring for an effective vertical passing game for years. And while stretching the defense is important. Everyone seems to want to fill that with a speed guy. 4.4 40 or better. I prefer a Nuk Hopkins/ Alshon Jefferey type. Mariota doesn't have the arm strength to be the guy who throws it up and lets a speedy guy 'go get it' (Not to mention that when he misses, he tends to miss high). Because of that I advocate for a guy who can get you those chuck plays by jumping over DBs and being tough at the catch point. Separation happens two ways, people only think about the running away from DBs. If I can jump and high point a ball you can't reach, then I've created separation no matter how fast I am. For the record, I only mentioned Tate because I was watching a vid on him when I originally replied We're honestly not as far apart in our opinions here as we're both probably making it out to be lol. I'm definitely not an "Anti big WR" guy or anything like that, and I'm sorry if anything I said had you thinking that. I'd love to add a guy with a big catch radius. I just feel like Jon's values don't necessarily align with the skill sets of most bigger receivers. Nuk Hopkins is one of those rare freak athletes that has that big time catch radius and he can run all the routes. Alshon Jeffery is one bigger guy that has had a lot of success with a limited route tree. Obviously none of what we're saying is absolutes, and none of it is an exact science. For every big guy with a limited route tree that has succeeded in the league tons have failed for the reasons I mentioned earlier and the same goes for undersized receivers. The reason I said I thought Richie was a "perfect fit" was a combination of his skill set and what it would cost to draft him. I love Marcus sometimes more than most on here, but I don't think he's ever going to be that big time vertical passer for us. I think he'll continue to thrive in the quick and intermediate passing game, so the YAC ability that Richie has could prove very valuable for us. I just think Marcus' skill set combined with Richie's YAC ability just fits Marcus' style of play. I do understand what you're saying about getting him a guy with a bigger catch radius though. That makes sense to me too, but one of our bigger issues last year was our receivers inability to create separation. Some of that was scheme and some of that was the receivers that we have. Marcus had to throw way more balls into traffic than most of us were comfortable with. I'd argue that we need a receiver with more speed and superior route running ability that can find different ways to get open. We didn't have many of our receivers getting open last year, and that was one of the factors in Marcus' INT totals. He was forced to throw into tight windows and make a lot of "perfect" throws. There's a possibility a guy with a bigger catch radius could help him with that, but by that same token a guy with great speed and route running ability to actually get open could help as well. I don't feel like either of us is wrong. There's just different ways to win, and there's positives and negatives to both philosophies for our team and the skill set of Marcus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttitansfan4life Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 - Guys I don’t think won’t be available at 25 but would be great picks.... • Derwin James • Harold Landry • Tremaine Edmunds • Roquan Smith • Isaiah Wynn - Guys I think could be available and I’ve takin an interest in • Taven Bryan - HUGE fan • Leighton Vander Esch - Very well could go before 25 after a good combine. • Arden Key - Kind of iffy on him but the elite athleticism traits are there. Had a down year last year so that’s concerning. • Will Hernandez - Fits well in most schemes but a zone scheme is perfect for him. • James Daniels - Really don’t think Ben Jones fits the zone scheme at all. 3 year starter • Lorenzo Carter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanRedd Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Really don’t think Ben Jones fits the zone scheme at all. 3 year starter Ben played in a zone scheme in Houston he does fit, he played hurt all last season though which is why his play looked bad, but I really like Corey Lewin I think he’s going to shock some people & challenge Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttitansfan4life Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Just because someone played in a scheme doesn’t mean they fit it... Teams always try to force players into a scheme they don’t fit. Case in point when we signed Levitre. Not saying Jones is horrible in a zone scheme but he can certainly be upgraded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans0021 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Is McShay really out here mocking tight ends to the Titans at 25? Are we legit in a spot where we can be making that kind of a luxury pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanRedd Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 4 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said: Just because someone played in a scheme doesn’t mean they fit it... Teams always try to force players into a scheme they don’t fit. Case in point when we signed Levitre. Not saying Jones is horrible in a zone scheme but he can certainly be upgraded. I’m saying Ben was good in Houston he left because Houston had his replacement in the wing & were trying to get under the cap. Ben is better in a zone scheme than a power scheme I’ve always stated that which is why I’m happy mularkey is gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSlim Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 33 minutes ago, titans0021 said: Is McShay really out here mocking tight ends to the Titans at 25? Are we legit in a spot where we can be making that kind of a luxury pick? It really makes no sense and his reasoning is poor too. Reading this article he doesn't explain why he mocked a TE to us. http://m.titansonline.com/news/article-4/ESPN’s-McShay-Sticking-with-South-Dakota-State-TE-for-Titans/a5c45bbb-69ca-47a4-b30e-f655eb354676 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans0021 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 41 minutes ago, TitanSlim said: It really makes no sense and his reasoning is poor too. Reading this article he doesn't explain why he mocked a TE to us. http://m.titansonline.com/news/article-4/ESPN’s-McShay-Sticking-with-South-Dakota-State-TE-for-Titans/a5c45bbb-69ca-47a4-b30e-f655eb354676 Yeah, that's where I initially saw it. I would've included a link, but as you said, there's absolutely no explanation of the pick itself, only of the player's value. We have our Pro Bowl vet and our young project. I see no way we could justify that kind of pick in the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragevsuall17 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 hour ago, TitanRedd said: I’m saying Ben was good in Houston he left because Houston had his replacement in the wing & were trying to get under the cap. Ben is better in a zone scheme than a power scheme I’ve always stated that which is why I’m happy mularkey is gone I thought this too... But as I started researching, looking at some of the tape of his in Houston... He really struggled... Had a hard time getting to the second level and creating the cut back lane or sealing the lane. When he came to the Titans, it was widely written about/thought that he was a better fit in the power run scheme that Mularkey was putting in. 2016 proved that line of thinking correct. He'll be serviceable, and maybe some experience with a different OL coach helped him create better angles and just play smarter... But I dont think its correct to think him going back to the zone scheme is a better fit. But see for yourself... Google it, there was plenty of tape analysis readily available when I looked it up a few weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanRedd Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 hour ago, ragevsuall17 said: I thought this too... But as I started researching, looking at some of the tape of his in Houston... He really struggled... Had a hard time getting to the second level and creating the cut back lane or sealing the lane. When he came to the Titans, it was widely written about/thought that he was a better fit in the power run scheme that Mularkey was putting in. 2016 proved that line of thinking correct. He'll be serviceable, and maybe some experience with a different OL coach helped him create better angles and just play smarter... But I dont think its correct to think him going back to the zone scheme is a better fit. But see for yourself... Google it, there was plenty of tape analysis readily available when I looked it up a few weeks ago. I stand corrected tape doesn’t lie, I was thinking bout when we signed him how the hype about him coming from HOU & I know Houston ran zone run game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanRedd Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Corey Levin I’m rooting for him to make a statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragevsuall17 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, TitanRedd said: I stand corrected tape doesn’t lie, I was thinking bout when we signed him how the hype about him coming from HOU & I know Houston ran zone run game Yeah... Once we knew LaFleur was signed, and knowing he'd be bringing the ZBS, I was like heck yeah, Jones is going back to his roots!!! But once I started reading up, it was the opposite... But like I said, maybe the experience he's gained will help him play smarter. I'm still hoping he'll play the part... But I won't be surprised if he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renndawg37 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Any chance Will Hernandez drops to 25? Looks like a damn beast out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerenityNow Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, renndawg37 said: Any chance Will Hernandez drops to 25? Looks like a damn beast out there. Before the process started I would've said yes, but he seems to only be picking up more and more steam especially after a great combine. A guy his size that moves that well is really rare. Watching his tape is crazy. I had to check myself a couple of times, because I couldn't believe how effortless he made getting to the second level look at 340 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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