2019 Draft Weekend Discussion!

[RaidersAreOne]

As expected:

 

[raidr4life]

Looks like Karl Joseph but better in coverage...

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raiders/nfl-draft-2019-raiders-take-safety-johnathan-abram-no-27-pick

[Geezy]

I Think we all get caught up in Pre draft rankings and the opinion of the media way too much. I’m glad we have a GM that has a board and sticks to it. Couldn trade back, and still took his guy. 

We have a plan I’m place and I believe we stuck to it. Overall, I feel we got our guys and we will implement them into our game plans accordingly. 

I think we have 3 starters. Upgraded our DL/Pass Rusher, RB, and DB rooms, that’s all we can ask for in the draft. Still have a ton of talent available. I like Brown, Irv Smith or Risner, each of which will provide a starter at a position of need. 

[Jerry]

Just now, raidr4life said:

Looks like Karl Joseph but better in coverage...

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raiders/nfl-draft-2019-raiders-take-safety-johnathan-abram-no-27-pick

Lots of depth with the DBs this season. 

[ronjon1990]

Just now, raidr4life said:

No your are not that good at this, go on record with one or the other, if Allen is good and Oliver sucks you can say well i wanted Allen or vice versa. You said Ferrell was a reach so who would you have taken. 

I would have made a gut choice between Allen or Oliver. Probably would have gone Allen, considering we invested in Hurst and Hall last year, still have Hankins and Ellis, and I'm willing to give Vanderdoes the chance to prove himself coming off his injury. I don't think that Oliver would do well outside. As such, while I wouldn't have minded Oliver, it would have been very much a luxury pick. Not a bad pick, not a reach, and very much my 1B. 

Allen would have been good to fill the void that Mack left behind. While we addressed LB in FA with Marshall and Burfict, neither of those are presumed to be long term investments, barring a surprise season. Considering that LB isn't as deep in this class as DE, I would have taken Allen in a heartbeat (or Devin White if Allen wasn't available). 

It's clear as day that we need to improve at both DE and LB. Considering, again, that DE is much deeper than LB in this class, Allen is an obvious choice over Ferrell. Considering that there are still quite a few quality DT's on the board, I'd have to go Allen > Oliver but would have been happy with either with 4 overall. 

Not sure if you're aware, but players get picked that someone WANTS and wind up sucking all the time, so your point is fairly moot, unless you're from the future and willing to absolutely guarantee that Ferrell, who many thought was a reach and few had ranked over guys like Allen and Oliver, is going to be superior to all of them. With Montez Sweat still on the board at the time and likely to fall deep (given reports and skepticism on his medicals), there wasn't such a pressing need to take a DE at 4. Again, unless you happen to know how Ferrell will turn out, there are other guys who could fill the same role he will that could have been taken later (even into the 2nd round). Consensus has largely been that, while Ferrell has a relatively high floor, his ceiling is fairly low. 

Now, if Ferrell AND Sweat both wound up gone between picks AND assuming we had no trade partners to grab another 2nd or move into the 3rd round, I'm not taking a DE. Winovich, Ferguson, Zach Allen, Jachai Polite, Charles Omenihu, Deandre Walker, Joe Jackson, and Oshane Ximines are all still on the board for 35 (and if not all of them, then mathematically most of them). Any of those would be good at 35, to varying degrees to address a need. Some could obviously be had later. Who knows how the middle rounds and trades shake out? Unlike, apparently, you, I cannot see into the future. But DE's are there for the taking regardless.

LB is not the same case, at all. After the Devins and Allen, there isn't anyone remotely close to being worth a 1st rounder and likely not the 35th overall pick. Seeing as we currently lack a 3rd rounder, LB was clearly a more urgent need to address than DE considering the wealth of guys available. 

As for DT, I would have made an exception for Oliver, as he was at one point a legitimate option to be the 1st overall pick. However, need trumps the luxury of using the 4th pick to essentially bolster depth at DT. And again, as with DE, DT is pretty deep in this class. Jerry Tillery was still on the board if we felt it was a pressing need, for example. Clearly, we didn't see it as a pressing need considering Hurst, Hood, Hankins, et. al. And again, like DE, there are plenty of DTs available at 35. 

What there aren't are LBs to take with 35 that come remotely close to bringing what Josh Allen could have brought. I get that your specialty is seeing into the future and having reading and mathematical literacy issues and not simple economics of value, but given the lack of depth in this draft at a position of need (EDGE OLB) and considerable depth at the need we did address (DE), it's clear that Ferrell was a fixated reach, given who else was available then AND now. With the consensus top 3 LBs off the board, the gap between them and the next batch of LBs is much wider than the gap between the top flight DEs and the next tier. At various points in the predraft process, several DEs (namely Winovich, Ferguson, Allen, and Polite) were floated as potential 1st rounders. Outside of the Devins and Allen, no other LBs were remotely close to being called 1st rounders. 

So yes, Ferrell was a reach. I would have taken Josh Allen and been much happier addressing our need at DE with a tier 2 type talent (again, assuming that Ferrell and Sweat didn't drop to 24, one of which is a possibility, the other of which is a fact, and further assuming that Sweat, who was indeed available at 24, would have been taken by someone jumping us) than ostensibly having to address another glaring need at LB with tier 3, 4 type talent later in the draft. 

Care to continue? 

[raidr4life]

 

Jimmy Durkin

 

@Jimmy_Durkin

·

33m

 

Mayock on Ferrell: "There were flashier players. Players teams may have had higher on their boards. On our board, it was he and Bosa, right next to each other."

[Geezy]

Reading up on all draft picks, they all share the same qualities. High character, well rounded football players. I like it 

[NightTrainLane]

1 hour ago, Silver&Black88 said:

Actually I’d be more fine with it than this. I’d be more fine with it than I was with the trade down for Miller last year too. Shouts for trying to put yourself in my shoes though 

[raidr4life]

3 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I would have made a gut choice between Allen or Oliver. Probably would have gone Allen, considering we invested in Hurst and Hall last year, still have Hankins and Ellis, and I'm willing to give Vanderdoes the chance to prove himself coming off his injury. I don't think that Oliver would do well outside. As such, while I wouldn't have minded Oliver, it would have been very much a luxury pick. Not a bad pick, not a reach, and very much my 1B. 

Allen would have been good to fill the void that Mack left behind. While we addressed LB in FA with Marshall and Burfict, neither of those are presumed to be long term investments, barring a surprise season. Considering that LB isn't as deep in this class as DE, I would have taken Allen in a heartbeat (or Devin White if Allen wasn't available). 

It's clear as day that we need to improve at both DE and LB. Considering, again, that DE is much deeper than LB in this class, Allen is an obvious choice over Ferrell. Considering that there are still quite a few quality DT's on the board, I'd have to go Allen > Oliver but would have been happy with either with 4 overall. 

Not sure if you're aware, but players get picked that someone WANTS and wind up sucking all the time, so your point is fairly moot, unless you're from the future and willing to absolutely guarantee that Ferrell, who many thought was a reach and few had ranked over guys like Allen and Oliver, is going to be superior to all of them. With Montez Sweat still on the board at the time and likely to fall deep (given reports and skepticism on his medicals), there wasn't such a pressing need to take a DE at 4. Again, unless you happen to know how Ferrell will turn out, there are other guys who could fill the same role he will that could have been taken later (even into the 2nd round). Consensus has largely been that, while Ferrell has a relatively high floor, his ceiling is fairly low. 

Now, if Ferrell AND Sweat both wound up gone between picks AND assuming we had no trade partners to grab another 2nd or move into the 3rd round, I'm not taking a DE. Winovich, Ferguson, Zach Allen, Jachai Polite, Charles Omenihu, Deandre Walker, Joe Jackson, and Oshane Ximines are all still on the board for 35 (and if not all of them, then mathematically most of them). Any of those would be good at 35, to varying degrees to address a need. Some could obviously be had later. Who knows how the middle rounds and trades shake out? Unlike, apparently, you, I cannot see into the future. But DE's are there for the taking regardless.

LB is not the same case, at all. After the Devins and Allen, there isn't anyone remotely close to being worth a 1st rounder and likely not the 35th overall pick. Seeing as we currently lack a 3rd rounder, LB was clearly a more urgent need to address than DE considering the wealth of guys available. 

As for DT, I would have made an exception for Oliver, as he was at one point a legitimate option to be the 1st overall pick. However, need trumps the luxury of using the 4th pick to essentially bolster depth at DT. And again, as with DE, DT is pretty deep in this class. Jerry Tillery was still on the board if we felt it was a pressing need, for example. Clearly, we didn't see it as a pressing need considering Hurst, Hood, Hankins, et. al. And again, like DE, there are plenty of DTs available at 35. 

What there aren't are LBs to take with 35 that come remotely close to bringing what Josh Allen could have brought. I get that your specialty is seeing into the future and having reading and mathematical literacy issues and not simple economics of value, but given the lack of depth in this draft at a position of need (EDGE OLB) and considerable depth at the need we did address (DE), it's clear that Ferrell was a fixated reach, given who else was available then AND now. With the consensus top 3 LBs off the board, the gap between them and the next batch of LBs is much wider than the gap between the top flight DEs and the next tier. At various points in the predraft process, several DEs (namely Winovich, Ferguson, Allen, and Polite) were floated as potential 1st rounders. Outside of the Devins and Allen, no other LBs were remotely close to being called 1st rounders. 

So yes, Ferrell was a reach. I would have taken Josh Allen and been much happier addressing our need at DE with a tier 2 type talent (again, assuming that Ferrell and Sweat didn't drop to 24, one of which is a possibility, the other of which is a fact, and further assuming that Sweat, who was indeed available at 24, would have been taken by someone jumping us) than ostensibly having to address another glaring need at LB with tier 3, 4 type talent later in the draft. 

Care to continue? 

I was on record saying I'd take Ferrell at 4 so you would have taken Allen good that's all I asked now 24 and 27.

[NYRaider]

I've come around more to our picks. Ferrell isn't a flashy pick but he's a plug and play starter that should be a good run defender and an 8-10 sack guy throughout his career. Jacobs was the best running back in the class and is our first promising young back since Darren McFadden. Abram should be a better version of Karl Joseph, great in the box, big hitter in the run game, and some TE coverage ability. 

[RaidersAreOne]

2 minutes ago, Geezy said:

Reading up on all draft picks, they all share the same qualities. High character, well rounded football players. I like it 

Exactly. Of course a top blue chip in Bosa or Williams wouldn't fall. Ferrel, Jacobs and Abram are all day one starters that have high floors and solid potential. Great building blocks at 3 different levels.

[raidr4life]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I've come around more to our picks. Ferrell isn't a flashy pick but he's a plug and play starter that should be a good run defender and an 8-10 sack guy throughout his career. Jacobs was the best running back in the class and is our first promising young back since Darren McFadden. Abram should be a better version of Karl Joseph, great in the box, big hitter in the run game, and some TE coverage ability. 

You've seen the light props.

[NYRaider]

Who do you guys want in the 2nd round? I'd be happy with Greedy Williams, Cody Ford, Irv Smith, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, or Chase Winovich.

[RaidersAreOne]

Just now, NYRaider said:

Who do you guys want in the 2nd round? I'd be happy with Greedy Williams, Cody Ford, Irv Smith, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, or Chase Winovich.

Greedy or AJ Brown for me. I hope we don't reach for Irv.

[ronjon1990]

2 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

I was on record saying I'd take Ferrell at 4 so you would have taken Allen good that's all I asked now 24 and 27.

How about instead of posting pictures of the thoughts of others, you tried some of your own? 

I have more important things to take care of than explain something to someone arguing for the sake of arguing while providing nothing of substance.