cannondale Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Right up to a week before the draft I was sure this pick would have been a DL to replace an expiring Daniels. Then it seemed that other than Oliver, there wasn't a guy that really fit the draft slot. In hindsight, I haven't kept up enough to know if Wilkins, Lawrence, Simmons, or Tillery would have been better choices. I can understand efforting an explosive Edge at 12, but we had already signed Smithx2. Now we are gonna need to find DL and probably OT help next year picking late. Unfortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 11 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Burns started out hot and those numbers are coasting from there. Name a good pass rusher in this league who has no speed to power move? You won't be able to. It's the reason no one wanted Arden Key and the reason Leonard Floyd hasn't put it together. You get figured out. Burns will be no different. Started out hot and those numbers have been coasting . . . Because he broke his hand! What is TJ Watt winning with right now? Shaq Barrett isn't much more than a speed guy. Harold Landry has 7 sacks this year. That's just off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Started out hot and those numbers have been coasting . . . Because he broke his hand! What is TJ Watt winning with right now? Shaq Barrett isn't much more than a speed guy. Harold Landry has 7 sacks this year. That's just off the top of my head. When you are not disparaging other posters (rather than the post itself, which is fair game) you bring so much good stuff to this site.........and that isn't condescending, it's true as far as I'm concerned. I was particularly interested in Harold Landry's sacks, as I spent a long time trying to decide whether I preferred Marcus Davenport (Saints) or Landry (Titans) in the 2018 draft. In the end I went for Davenport as I give the edge to guys with mostly a power game, over those with mostly speed. Davenport has three sacks this year, so although it is early, it looks like I might have picked the wrong guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 31 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Started out hot and those numbers have been coasting . . . Because he broke his hand! What is TJ Watt winning with right now? Shaq Barrett isn't much more than a speed guy. Harold Landry has 7 sacks this year. That's just off the top of my head. Those 3 absolutely have more of a power game than the 3 I listed and it's sad you even have Watt listed there, we're not talking Smith Bros power there but the hand usage is so excellent that I would call his game above average in that department, surely not a speed bender like Burns. Barrett and Landry also have the center or gravity/body mass factor in that they're 6'2 and 250+ dudes. A lot of their power is generated from that. Those long, lean pass rushers in the mold of Burns need a counter to the speed/bend or the Bahk's/Bulaga's of the world eat them alive. Sure he'll feast on some power run scheme plodder at OT with no feet, but we're not talking about a guy worth #12 without it. The fact that you chose to be so down on Gary that now you have to artificially pimp up the other rushers we had a choice of to make him look worse is sad. We had our choice in 3 raw rushers with bad flaws and big time pros, and we picked Gary. Whichever coaching staff fixes their pick to make them a well rounded rusher will look like the geniuses. It's beyond obvious that Pettine and Smith got their guy, we'll see what they do with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Those 3 absolutely have more of a power game than the 3 I listed and it's sad you even have Watt listed there, we're not talking Smith Bros power there but the hand usage is so excellent that I would call his game above average in that department, surely not a speed bender like Burns. Barrett and Landry also have the center or gravity/body mass factor in that they're 6'2 and 250+ dudes. A lot of their power is generated from that. Those long, lean pass rushers in the mold of Burns need a counter to the speed/bend or the Bahk's/Bulaga's of the world eat them alive. Sure he'll feast on some power run scheme plodder at OT with no feet, but we're not talking about a guy worth #12 without it. The fact that you chose to be so down on Gary that now you have to artificially pimp up the other rushers we had a choice of to make him look worse is sad. We had our choice in 3 raw rushers with bad flaws and big time pros, and we picked Gary. Whichever coaching staff fixes their pick to make them a well rounded rusher will look like the geniuses. It's beyond obvious that Pettine and Smith got their guy, we'll see what they do with him. Neither Landry nor Barrett do a damn thing with the power game. They're pure dip and rip guys. Watt's the same way on like 85% of his rushes. You're moving the goal posts. First it was pure speed guys, now you want pure speed guys who are also tall. What next, pure speed guys who are tall, who also have alliterative names? You're doing almost as much mental gymnastics to explain away the success of Brian Burns as you are to explain away the abject failure that has been Gary. I'm not pimping up Burns. I gave you the damn numbers. You promptly dismissed them, because it made your argument wrong. We had our choice of 3 raw rushers with bad flaws. The difference is that we had seen 2 of those 3 guys have success with their positive traits in college. We decided to go with the one who really didn't show anything. Who couldn't beat dopey college tackles because he rushes the passer like a drunk, with legs going one way, and arms waving about. Maybe that's fixable, but god damn, it sure would be nice to have at least one pro ready trait to fall back on in case it doesn't work out. Burns may never be a 19 sack guy, but the guy playing right now is at least a plus rusher in the pressure package. Right now Gary is only getting snaps because of his draft position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 To say Gary didn’t show anything in college is a little telling of your perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, deathstar said: To say Gary didn’t show anything in college is a little telling of your perspective. The man had 9.5 sacks in 3 seasons. Burns had 10 sacks his junior year and 23 in 3 seasons Sweat had 12 sacks his senior year and had 23.5 in 3 seasons. Edited November 24, 2019 by AlexGreen#20 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Norm said: Might be the funniest thing I've seen on the internet in months! Well played! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The man had 9.5 sacks in 3 seasons. Yup. Must’ve shown nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 minute ago, deathstar said: Yup. Must’ve shown nothing. His last season, he had a sack against Indiana, Nebraska, and Western Michigan. He was 4th on his own team in sacks that year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 17 minutes ago, deathstar said: To say Gary didn’t show anything in college is a little telling of your perspective. Beyond his sophomore year, which put him in the early running for the #1 overall pick with Bosa if he built off it, all Gary showed in college was inconsistent burst of freaky ability. No concrete traits you were sure you had besides a bull rush. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Beyond his sophomore year, which put him in the early running for the #1 overall pick with Bosa if he built off it, all Gary showed in college was inconsistent burst of freaky ability. No concrete traits you were sure you had besides a bull rush. The bull rush wasn't even some great weapon. It was just easier to project a bullrush than it was anything else for him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The bull rush wasn't even some great weapon. It was just easier to project a bullrush than it was anything else for him. He has natural power, hand placement is much easier to fix than vice versa. You can tinker with a guy who throws 98 to help him locate, much harder to tinker with a guy who throws 89 and get him to throw 95. Happens, but it's rare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: He has natural power, hand placement is much easier to fix than vice versa. You can tinker with a guy who throws 98 to help him locate, much harder to tinker with a guy who throws 89 and get him to throw 95. Happens, but it's rare. Agreed, just don't like trying to help a guy who throws 98 learn to locate when he hasn't shown any ability to have a second pitch, much less a third pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Just now, AlexGreen#20 said: Agreed, just don't like trying to help a guy who throws 98 learn to locate when he hasn't shown any ability to have a second pitch, much less a third pitch. That's what we're in for, it's what Smith and Pettine wanted. However just like a dominant fastball pitcher, those "pitches" only need to be league average to play when you have those athletic gifts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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