AlexGreen#20 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Yes the motto always is, draft for need, not BPA. I know you dislike Gary but you're smarter than this when it comes to football, I've seen it with my own eyes. You can dislike the pick or prospect and still understand the philosophy behind it. I understand the philosophy behind it. I'm just worried this was a busted evaluation of a prospect. And I'm also skeptical the development is being managed all that well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I understand the philosophy behind it. I'm just worried this was a busted evaluation of a prospect. And I'm also skeptical the development is being managed all that well. You will know about that "management" next year come training camp. What is the over/under on the number of fluff pieces that will be out talking up Gary? He's gonna be a very hot topic next year. And I'm still good with giving him time to develop. I've got no issue with that. What I do have an issue with is his usage and the coachspeak around him. If he's looking so good in practice and pads, he should get a few more snaps if for no other reason than development. I really want to see us blow someone out and get him a solid quarter to a quarter and a half of snaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I understand the philosophy behind it. I'm just worried this was a busted evaluation of a prospect. And I'm also skeptical the development is being managed all that well. Somewhere on Twitter I recently saw some film cutups of the rush arsenal of rookie Preston and Z. It wasn't pretty. I also remember the early years of Dee Ford, who was fixed by the guy we have now. He's got nothing but athletic ability and work ethic right now, but there's proof out there in many cases that an arsenal of rush moves can be developed. If not at least teach the guy to be a master of leverage and hand placement so we can get Nick Perry out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Packerraymond said: Well I'm just telling you over the course of a GM career you're going to end up with FAR more busts by being on the clock and thinking "who can help me this year" versus "who's going to be the best player at his peak." Thank God those aren't the only options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: Somewhere on Twitter I recently saw some film cutups of the rush arsenal of rookie Preston and Z. It wasn't pretty. I also remember the early years of Dee Ford, who was fixed by the guy we have now. He's got nothing but athletic ability and work ethic right now, but there's proof out there in many cases that an arsenal of rush moves can be developed. If not at least teach the guy to be a master of leverage and hand placement so we can get Nick Perry out of it. A 2nd and 4th round pick. I don't know why so many want to go great lengths to hide from what the situation is. Edited November 22, 2019 by cannondale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, cannondale said: A 2nd and 4th round pick. I don't know why so many want to go great lengths to hide from what the situation is. Not hiding from anything. My team decided to draft a project at 12 because they liked his projection and felt comfortable with the guys already at that position to let him develop. He plays the 2nd most important position in football so the fact that they weren't getting immediate value for the 12th pick was OK to them as long as they recoup that value in the long run. That's literally the situation. I'm just not freaking out because we didn't get 55% of defensive snaps and 7.5 sacks walking through the door immediately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 1 hour ago, vegas492 said: What is the over/under on the number of fluff pieces that will be out talking up Gary? He's gonna be a very hot topic next year. Gary is the next Kumerow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: 20 percent of first rounders from the 2014 draft aren't in the league anymore. Only 4 of the top 12 picks are still playing for their original team. We're not in the preface of anything We are not talking of 2014, we are talking 2019..........a rookie. 2014 has no bearing at all on this. So yes, we are just at the preface of his career, and you are premature with your judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Norm said: Gary is the next Kumerow How dare you, sir! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said: We are not talking of 2014, we are talking 2019..........a rookie. 2014 has no bearing at all on this. So yes, we are just at the preface of his career, and you are premature with your judgement. Only he's not. It is okay to be "down" on Gary right now for where he is at, while fully understanding that he is a long term project. That is a perfectly acceptable stance to have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: Somewhere on Twitter I recently saw some film cutups of the rush arsenal of rookie Preston and Z. It wasn't pretty. I also remember the early years of Dee Ford, who was fixed by the guy we have now. He's got nothing but athletic ability and work ethic right now, but there's proof out there in many cases that an arsenal of rush moves can be developed. If not at least teach the guy to be a master of leverage and hand placement so we can get Nick Perry out of it. If Gary ends up being a more agile Perry who can stay healthy, I won't hate him as a player at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 40 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Not hiding from anything. My team decided to draft a project at 12 because they liked his projection and felt comfortable with the guys already at that position to let him develop. He plays the 2nd most important position in football so the fact that they weren't getting immediate value for the 12th pick was OK to them as long as they recoup that value in the long run. That's literally the situation. I'm just not freaking out because we didn't get 55% of defensive snaps and 7.5 sacks walking through the door immediately. Well put. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Virtually anybody we picked at 12 would have been a disappointment this year. It was a bit of a no man's land for picking. Not sure Brian Burns would have fit this system well enough to displace Preston or Za'Darius Smith, and not sure Montez Sweat would have done much more than Gary. I was a Christian Wilkins fan myself, but he hasn't been impressive. Dexter Lawrence might have been important to this defense, but literally no one on this board was on board with picking him. Face it, sometimes there are soft spots in the draft order, and it is hard to trade back out of them because teams know that they can get similar value by staying put and waiting for the board to come to them. So the front office took their shot with a pick based on potential since there wasn't the clear value to match the timing of the pick. Sometimes that is what you have to do. Might as well be patient, give it some time, and see how it turns out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, vegas492 said: 12 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said: We are not talking of 2014, we are talking 2019..........a rookie. 2014 has no bearing at all on this. So yes, we are just at the preface of his career, and you are premature with your judgement. Only he's not. It is okay to be "down" on Gary right now for where he is at, while fully understanding that he is a long term project. That is a perfectly acceptable stance to have. Your second sentence tends to contradict the first. If you understand he is a long(er) term project, then why be down on him now ? My argument is, and always will be, that he was known as a project when he was drafted............ and partway through his first season is too early for some posters to be suggesting he is a bust. The list of good players who took more than a season to break out, is truly massive. It seems it is in the nature of the majority of fans to make a judgement on the various aspects of their team too early, when more time will give a proper picture. That applies to new innovations and new personnel, whether player, coach, GM or whatever. Edited November 23, 2019 by OneTwoSixFive 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 5 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Virtually anybody we picked at 12 would have been a disappointment this year. It was a bit of a no man's land for picking. I wanted DL Jeffery Simmons and would have been perfectly happy (at the time of the draft) with him at #12. He recovered very rapidly from his ACL and has been playing since 20 October. i heard he was looking good as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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