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Lions Select TE T.J. Hockenson #8 Overall

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1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I'm not mad because of Grew and Ebron, I am mad because TE's aren't worth a top 10 pick, period.  I am looking at the impact of Vernon Davis, Mercedes Lewis, Tyler Eifert, Kyle Rudolph, Hayden Hurst, OJ Howard, Evan Engram, David Njoku, Jermaine Gresham, Heath Miller, Kellen Winslow.....    They just don't impact the game enough.  As I have said before, Gronk is the best there ever was.  He was a physical specimen.  And still, having a dominant D line is more important to winning a championship (or having Brady and Belichik. 

None of those guys were as good coming out. 

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The pick is good & could be a great pick if and I say if he is better then Fant, many could argue that Fant might be the number one TE in this draft. I like both Te knew both were 1st round talent many thought both would be gone before 20th pick in most mock drafts. I am happy with the pick think he will be good the only question I really have is FANT better in NFL!

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10 minutes ago, LION KING said:

The pick is good & could be a great pick if and I say if he is better then Fant, many could argue that Fant might be the number one TE in this draft. I like both Te knew both were 1st round talent many thought both would be gone before 20th pick in most mock drafts. I am happy with the pick think he will be good the only question I really have is FANT better in NFL!

I don't see any argument whatsoever that Fant is the better prospect or even has as much upside.

Hockenson should be a strong candidate for OROY

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4 minutes ago, Typical_Lions said:

You don't think that Witten is gonna be in the HOF? I think the only debate is if he would be a first ballot HOFer. Overall, we will disagree here and that is fine. I think Ertz and Kelce (and Gronk in his heyday) are elite and do a lot.

I don't think he's arguing about Witten in the HOF. Maybe he is...I'd say Witten is a HOFer. He also was in his heyday in a different NFL. I think Ertz is a solid player for his position but he's in a different category than Gronk and Kelce. Rare players have the ability to play above positional value. Gronk and Kelce do that. Ertz plays to the level you would expect a top TE1 should do. The Eagles drafted Dallas Goedert in the 2nd round last year as a complimentary player.

I just think that Hockenson would've been available lower than 8, so we could have gotten him even if we still took him in round 1. I also think that a guy like Fant or Knox would be better fits/value picks.

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2 minutes ago, detroitroar said:

I don't see any argument whatsoever that Fant is the better prospect or even has as much upside.

Hockenson should be a strong candidate for OROY

I expect Fant (assuming they play similar number of games, no injuries, etc.) to have more year one impact than Hockenson in terms of yards and TD's.

Hock - 300 yards, 3 TD's

Fant - 600 yards, 5 TD's

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not sure how I feel about the pick, I feel like we could traded down and got him, but I also here he is getting compared to Kelce/Kittle so if that's true it helps out the O. Hock, Kenny, Kerryon. we should be alright. Quinn has done a decent job in the later rounds so ill hold out fine verdict til after the draft.

 

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11 minutes ago, flyguy1609 said:

not sure how I feel about the pick, I feel like we could traded down and got him, but I also here he is getting compared to Kelce/Kittle so if that's true it helps out the O. Hock, Kenny, Kerryon. we should be alright. Quinn has done a decent job in the later rounds so ill hold out fine verdict til after the draft.

 

Kelce and Kittle are more athletic with better long speed.

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45 minutes ago, detroitroar said:

None of those guys were as good coming out. 

I think we hear that every time a first round TE is drafted.  Vernon Davis was the most athletic specimen ever and could block.  Grew was pretty much another O lineman he was such a good blocker, Ebron was such a great receiver....   I hear it every time a TE is drafted in the first round.  Nobody is ever as good of a prospect as the current guy.  I find that hard to believe.  History shows its a dumb pick.  Drafting hoping for an exception is a horrible way to draft.

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18 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Kelce and Kittle are more athletic with better long speed.

Kittle led his team to a top 2 pick.  He was the only option, he got the chances because they have no other pass catchers worth anything.  In a real offense, he wouldn't be as productive.  Same with Kelce.  They have (had) Hill and Kelce to catch balls.  I think Kelce is good, but in that system with that QB, anyone would put up numbers as a #2 pass catcher.

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4 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I think we hear that every time a first round TE is drafted.  Vernon Davis was the most athletic specimen ever and could block.  Grew was pretty much another O lineman he was such a good blocker, Ebron was such a great receiver....   I hear it every time a TE is drafted in the first round.  Nobody is ever as good of a prospect as the current guy.  I find that hard to believe.  History shows its a dumb pick.  Drafting hoping for an exception is a horrible way to draft.

If Hockenson ran a 4.38 like Davis did... maybe... maybe... we could be looking at this as a super athletic TE who is also a good blocker, it's worth taking the swing.

However, I'm with you 100% on this.

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2 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Kittle led his team to a top 2 pick.  He was the only option, he got the chances because they have no other pass catchers worth anything.  In a real offense, he wouldn't be as productive.  Same with Kelce.  They have (had) Hill and Kelce to catch balls.  I think Kelce is good, but in that system with that QB, anyone would put up numbers as a #2 pass catcher.

Can't say that I disagree. I was just pointing out that Hock isn't Kittle or Kelce. We'll be very fortunate to wind up with Ertz.

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2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I expect Fant (assuming they play similar number of games, no injuries, etc.) to have more year one impact than Hockenson in terms of yards and TD's.

Hock - 300 yards, 3 TD's

Fant - 600 yards, 5 TD's

Unless the Lions show huge improvement in the run game that type of production just isn’t worth a first round pick.

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1 minute ago, diehardlionfan said:

Unless the Lions show huge improvement in the run game that type of production just isn’t worth a first round pick.

That's typical of a high end rookie TE. I think Evan Engram was one of the few to actually put up big yardage early on in his career... 722 yards, 6 TD's on an offense where he was the only real receiving threat (OBJ and Shepherd were both injured) and no Barkley. Two guys from 2018 who are similar athletically: Mike Geisicki and Mark Andrews. Herndon has similar size but isn't as athletic as some of the other guys.

Geisicki (2nd Round MIA): 202 Yards, 0 TD

Goedert (2nd Round PHI): 334 Yards, 4 TD

Andrews (3rd Round BAL): 552 Yards, 3 TD

Herndon (4th Round NYJ): 502 Yards, 4 TD

If you're drafting for what you think the player could be, then maybe you can say they're worth it around the 20's to 30's. I still don't think a first round TE makes sense but I don't think this class is as deep as we've been told along the way. If Ed Oliver is Aaron Donald-lite, you're looking at 8 - 10 sacks from a guy that can be moved around the defense.  

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3 hours ago, LION KING said:

The pick is good & could be a great pick if and I say if he is better then Fant, many could argue that Fant might be the number one TE in this draft. I like both Te knew both were 1st round talent many thought both would be gone before 20th pick in most mock drafts. I am happy with the pick think he will be good the only question I really have is FANT better in NFL!

Fant may end up being a better fantasy player, but Hockenson projects to be a far more complete player. Fant is more of the Ebron type of TE. 

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