2020 NFL Draft Thread

[MrOaktown_56]

2 minutes ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

I quit reading when I saw you had Henderson at 12

We shouldn't blast him for having a difference in opinion. I personally feel like we need to take a guy at 12 who's bustproof and will change the game for us. A top WR is the only guy outside of simmons/okudah/derrick brown who can do that for us.

[101Raider]

Jeff Gladney is still being sleep on as a CB option. Would be a great fit with us too.

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

We shouldn't blast him for having a difference in opinion. I personally feel like we need to take a guy at 12 who's bustproof and will change the game for us. A top WR is the only guy outside of simmons/okudah/derrick brown who can do that for us.

I wasn't trying to blast him, and if it came across that way, I apologize. I usually respect other's opinions. But Henderson at 12? I'd fly to Vegas and wait for Mayock in the parking lot. I'd rather trade back then draft him at 12. imo

[BackinBlack]

love seeing the there is no way so and so goes that high talks haha... did we learn nothing from last year? or the year prior? or the year prior?

The nfl experts on social media.. are on social media more or less because they couldnt get a job for an nfl team. barring the big names. 
the 'nfl experts' pretty much piggy back off of the few big names and make little tweaks to make it look like their own. 

it is why, every year players drop or go way higher than expected. The media builds players up because they think this or that, but its far from proof. 

I am a firm believer, that if Mayock wasnt on the Raiders and still on NFLN... he would have rated Cle his #2 DE.. and then everyone would have talked about him

[Chwf3rd25]

23 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Henderson is a bit overrated. Struggles with physical WRs. He ran well, but he hasn't done enough to separate himself from the glut of cornerbacks after Okudah IMO. Dude will get bodied if you try to put him on #1 WRs who win with physicality. 

I disagree with your WR assessment. Jeudy/Lamb/Ruggs are all top tier.

Reagor and Aiyuk would be horrible reaches in the late 1st.  I'd rather have Van Jefferson in the 3rd round than either of these guys in the late 1st. Hamler, Mims, and Jefferson are all comparable/better prospects IMO. Higgins I like, but has some athletic testing red flags where unless he ran with a hurt hammy, I'd have to be careful about taking him. Not nearly as sure of a thing as the top 3 WR.

I think unless you can land Derrick Brown at 12, take the pick of the best WR on the board and don't get cute. I would try to trade down from 19 and take a DB who may drop. Delpit in the late 1st could end up being a fantastic gamble.

CJ Henderson - what game has he struggled vs physical WRs?  I'm really interested in knowing where you're getting that from because I never saw that with him.  Yes he's a bad tackler but that does not mean that he struggles with bigger WRs.

Jeudy/Lamb/Ruggs - I disagree with Ruggs being in that tier but even so none of those 3 are likely to be there at 19.  Thus, if we go defense at 12 we're dealing with the second tier of WRs at 19.  I think you'd agree that trading down into the mid/late 20s makes sense given how large that group is.

Reagor/Aiyuk - we can disagree on the order of the next group of WRs, thats fine.  Just insert your preferred flavor into the mid/late 20s pick.

[MrOaktown_56]

2 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

CJ Henderson - what game has he struggled vs physical WRs?  I'm really interested in knowing where you're getting that from because I never saw that with him.  Yes he's a bad tackler but that does not mean that he struggles with bigger WRs.

Jeudy/Lamb/Ruggs - I disagree with Ruggs being in that tier but even so none of those 3 are likely to be there at 19.  Thus, if we go defense at 12 we're dealing with the second tier of WRs at 19.  I think you'd agree that trading down into the mid/late 20s makes sense given how large that group is.

Reagor/Aiyuk - we can disagree on the order of the next group of WRs, thats fine.  Just insert your preferred flavor into the mid/late 20s pick.

Ja'marr chase gave him a lot of trouble. Granted, Chase is a monster, but you have to be able to handle the physicality of alpha #1 WR if we're drafting this guy in the top 15 to be a #1 corner. It's a lot to ask of any prospect. Henderson has a lot of coachable upside but none of that is a guarantee right away. It's what Crock alluded to. He COULD BE an elite corner, or a bust IMO. I'd rather take the WR at 12.

Ruggs IMO is in that top tier now. He has elite athletic testing, ridiculous speed, and can run routes/make contested catches. 

[Chwf3rd25]

19 minutes ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

I quit reading when I saw you had Henderson at 12

 

26 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

This is by far the worst scenarios I’ve seen so far.  I’d take Mayock out in the parking lot myself if he did something so inept as that.

id do into an indepth analysis as to why that’s a horrible draft for us but honestly it doesn’t deserve that much thought.  No offense meant it’s just the truth.

 

scenario 2 is far more realistic and reasonable 

What are your issues with Henderson? 

He's in the top tier of the defensive talent for me along with Brown, Kinlaw, Simmons, and Okudah.

My Report

CJ Henderson, Florida, 6'1/204, Age: 21, 4.39 40, 95% SPARQ

Value: Top 10

Games Watched: Miami, Vanderbilt, LSU

Positives: Incredibly quick feet to close in a second, great closing burst, versatility to excel in man or zone, great separating the ball from the WR, incredibly sticky in man coverage with rare fluidity and mirror ability.  

Negatives: Awful tackler and lacks preferred ball production.

 

[jimkelly02]

4 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

 

What are your issues with Henderson? 

He's in the top tier of the defensive talent for me along with Brown, Kinlaw, Simmons, and Okudah.

My Report

CJ Henderson, Florida, 6'1/204, Age: 21, 4.39 40, 95% SPARQ

Value: Top 10

Games Watched: Miami, Vanderbilt, LSU

Positives: Incredibly quick feet to close in a second, great closing burst, versatility to excel in man or zone, great separating the ball from the WR, incredibly sticky in man coverage with rare fluidity and mirror ability.  

Negatives: Awful tackler and lacks preferred ball production.

 

First, as another poster brought up... Sorry If you felt I attacked you. When I wrote that I was in my mind throughly disagreeing with the proposed picks under option 1 and not you as a person/poster.  Reading it back I can see how it looks like I meant to attack you but I assuredly did not intend to..... moving on 

 

Henderson just isn’t a 1st round CB, IMO... well At least not a top 20/25 pick

he has too many issues with technique being all over the place and he tackles like a girl.  I see him as a CB2 during his peak.  I don’t really care about his workout numbers.  Numbers are only thresholds to me... “is he athletic enough for X?”

Henderson might be in play @12 but to take him over Lamb and Jeudy @12 is crazy IMO.  
we might need to take Henderson in the first though .... as there seems to be few options and there drying up fast at CB.... but I’d personally want to trade back from 19 to like 25 before I take him.  He’s just not that great.

[Chwf3rd25]

13 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Ja'marr chase gave him a lot of trouble. Granted, Chase is a monster, but you have to be able to handle the physicality of alpha #1 WR if we're drafting this guy in the top 15 to be a #1 corner. It's a lot to ask of any prospect. Henderson has a lot of coachable upside but none of that is a guarantee right away. It's what Crock alluded to. He COULD BE an elite corner, or a bust IMO. I'd rather take the WR at 12.

Ruggs IMO is in that top tier now. He has elite athletic testing, ridiculous speed, and can run routes/make contested catches. 

I would watch the LSU game again - here is a compilation of all the plays he was thrown at if you dont wanna watch the full game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_Xdc5ehBB8

He really got beat twice in the game - (1) on a slant in the redzone where he had a late reaction and (2) on a go route where he got picked.  There was one play where he came up in zone and missed a tackle.

Not his best game but I would hardly say that it serves as an example of him being beat by physicality.

[jimkelly02]

24 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

love seeing the there is no way so and so goes that high talks haha... did we learn nothing from last year? or the year prior? or the year prior?

The nfl experts on social media.. are on social media more or less because they couldnt get a job for an nfl team. barring the big names. 
the 'nfl experts' pretty much piggy back off of the few big names and make little tweaks to make it look like their own. 

it is why, every year players drop or go way higher than expected. The media builds players up because they think this or that, but its far from proof. 

I am a firm believer, that if Mayock wasnt on the Raiders and still on NFLN... he would have rated Cle his #2 DE.. and then everyone would have talked about him

I usually say everything you do but Henderson at 12? 
I just had someone tell me Delpit at 19 isn’t a real option and he’ll be gone and I my response was “sure he could go earlier but he’s in the realm of possibilities at 19.... we won’t know til we know”

.... but Henderson at 12? lol 

I think I can safely stick with That being a major reach.

[jimkelly02]

27 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

I am a firm believer, that if Mayock wasnt on the Raiders and still on NFLN... he would have rated Cle his #2 DE.. and then everyone would have talked about him

Ive said this like 1000x myself.

I did flip out at first but only cuz we didn’t trade back a bit... but after a little bit when I realized that wasn’t an option I was very good with the pick.

[BackinBlack]

1 minute ago, jimkelly02 said:

I usually say everything you do but Henderson at 12? 
I just had someone tell me Delpit at 19 isn’t a real option and he’ll be gone and I my response was “sure he could go earlier but he’s in the realm of possibilities at 19.... we won’t know til we know”

.... but Henderson at 12? lol 

I think I can safely stick with That being a major reach.

aha i do agree with you, and outside of Jeffrey (would be a miracle) I do not want a CB in the first. 
just that in general, people who speak of guarantees in the draft usually end up being wrong on more than a few  

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

24 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

 

What are your issues with Henderson? 

He's in the top tier of the defensive talent for me along with Brown, Kinlaw, Simmons, and Okudah.

My Report

CJ Henderson, Florida, 6'1/204, Age: 21, 4.39 40, 95% SPARQ

Value: Top 10

Games Watched: Miami, Vanderbilt, LSU

Positives: Incredibly quick feet to close in a second, great closing burst, versatility to excel in man or zone, great separating the ball from the WR, incredibly sticky in man coverage with rare fluidity and mirror ability.  

Negatives: Awful tackler and lacks preferred ball production.

 

I don't want somebody who can't tackle. It's kind of an important part of football. If he hasn't learned how to tackle by age 21, he'll never learn. That screams he's soft. No thank you.

[MrOaktown_56]

14 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

I would watch the LSU game again - here is a compilation of all the plays he was thrown at if you dont wanna watch the full game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_Xdc5ehBB8

He really got beat twice in the game - (1) on a slant in the redzone where he had a late reaction and (2) on a go route where he got picked.  There was one play where he came up in zone and missed a tackle.

Not his best game but I would hardly say that it serves as an example of him being beat by physicality.

Look at Crock's thread. I'm not talking about where the pass was completed. I'm talking about where he was beaten, not where he was targeted. I respect your opinion, but Henderson doesn't have the physicality I want in a corner. I'd take him at 19-late 1st, but definitely not at 12 or earlier.

Edited March 18, 2020 by MrOaktown_56

[Chwf3rd25]

6 minutes ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

I don't want somebody who can't tackle. It's kind of an important part of football. If he hasn't learned how to tackle by age 21, he'll never learn. That screams he's soft. No thank you.

You don’t want Deion Sanders? Nnamdi Asomough?

Of course is rather he be a decent tackler and that knocks his grade down.  However, give me the lock down man coverage corner with questionable tackling any day.  Henderson absolutely has the ability to be that guy to me.