MrOaktown_56 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 9 hours ago, Darbsk said: Kinlaw definitely has the bigger chance to bust but IMO he has the higher pass rushing ceiling, really powerful punch, long limbed and violent with his hands and once he polishes rechnique and really utilises his leverage (which will come with good coaching) he's got the explosion, quickness and feet to knife through the OL and give interior guys fits. As if right now, he's not as polished as Brown and Brown certainly is a very good player but he's not as sudden, agile or quick from what ive seen. Kinlaw will be compared to Chris Jones and if he works out his flaws he'll win in a similar way. Brown to me is limited with his quickness, balance and explosion but he'll make an excellent run stopping DT or NT with some pass rush, similar to Vea maybe. Donald wins with elite quickness, balance, great leverage and very polished moves, he was my favourite player in that draft class for those reasons and whilst Kinlaw is a very different player he has IMHO the higher ceiling as a pass rusher and whilst I like Brown, our D needs a Kinlaw. It'll be intriguing to see how both guys develop but realistically I don't think we'll pick either. I think Brown is a 3 tech in a bigger body. He's definitely not a nose tackle. He's already a significantly better pass rusher than Vea. He's like a Suh or Hicks. He'll basically make us a top 5 run defense and also create opportunities for everyone else to get 1 on 1s while pushing the pocket and getting 6-8 sacks a year. Kinlaw is more explosive, but his floor is lower. I think the staff wants polished players. I was one of the first to be in on Kinlaw, but I understand why the Raiders will likely pass on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Totty said: Has anyone proposed Jeff Gladney at 19? I have done a little reading about the CBs in this class he is described as tough, scrappy, and a willing tackler. EDIT literally just saw the post above mine. :eyeroll: I will watch Gladney next. Jaylon Johnson is an excellent CB prospect. I have him a little below fulton with room to move up. He has everything BUT elite speed, but his savvy on the field, physicality, and mentality ( I know I keep saying that word but you can see it when he plays) are excellent. He doesn't panic when the ball is in the air (not many PI calls coming his way), and the way he baited on that pick vs stanford was beautiful playing the sticks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 48 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: I looked at Davis as well and came to a similar conclusion though I think he is a better tackler than you may be giving him credit for. Plus with him being moldable they may see the chance to teach him the game we want to play. He is a super athlete. On the other side of it, and I say this not having fully review the previous pages in this tread, what do you think the chances of us surprising some and going after Xavier McKinney as a plug and play partner for Abrams? McKinney's an interesting one, I like him but not as much as Winfield. I think we'll certainly look at him but its just trying to find that sweet spot in the draft where his value and our needs mesh, I wouldn't take him in the first at 19 and he'll be long gone by the third so we'll need a bit of manouvering. I think Gruden would love either Winfield or McKinney. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I think Brown is a 3 tech in a bigger body. He's definitely not a nose tackle. He's already a significantly better pass rusher than Vea. He's like a Suh or Hicks. He'll basically make us a top 5 run defense and also create opportunities for everyone else to get 1 on 1s while pushing the pocket and getting 6-8 sacks a year. Kinlaw is more explosive, but his floor is lower. I think the staff wants polished players. I was one of the first to be in on Kinlaw, but I understand why the Raiders will likely pass on him. I like him but dont see the explosion or quickness, best case he could be a Suh type player but I think he more than likely is a 3 to 4 sack guy with great run defence. I agree with you that Mayock likes polished players and he is that but I just don't see the pass rushing traits unfortunately. If we took him at 12 I wouldn't be unhappy, he's a very good player and a rock but Id prefer the higher pass rush ceiling, to each his own I guess 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, Darbsk said: McKinney's an interesting one, I like him but not as much as Winfield. I think we'll certainly look at him but its just trying to find that sweet spot in the draft where his value and our needs mesh, I wouldn't take him in the first at 19 and he'll be long gone by the third so we'll need a bit of manouvering. I think Gruden would love either Winfield or McKinney. I also am in the rare camp with Winfield Jr over McKinney. I have McKinney falling to the 2nd Round in almost 100% of my mock drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 4 1 minute ago, Darbsk said: I like him but dont see the explosion or quickness, best case he could be a Suh type player but I think he more than likely is a 3 to 4 sack guy with great run defence. I agree with you that Mayock likes polished players and he is that but I just don't see the pass rushing traits unfortunately. If we took him at 12 I wouldn't be unhappy, he's a very good player and a rock but Id prefer the higher pass rush ceiling, to each his own I guess 😀 Routinely was doubled and even sometimes tripled in the SEC... Look how fast he splits the guards If you block him with 1 guard, he can absolutely destroy you with power. Look at how fast he overwhelms the guard by getting his hands inside. Another rep in where he commands the attention of 3 once he initially beats the guard. Silly what he does to this guard. Horrible clip quality but watch him just shred this guard with a spin move... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 I feel like everyone is underrating Derrick Brown's first step quickness. He's not a big slow nose. I dont know how many clips I have to show, but the man is a blue chip prospect in this draft. Absurd he literally bends the edge. The difference in Brown and Kinlaw is that brown is consistently winning/making an impact. Kinlaw is still more of a flash guy than anything else. If you ask me which guy will transform the defense on day 1, it's Brown. He can help make a team 1 dimensional (passing) and help in that facet tremendously as well. Imagine you're playing the titans in a playoff game and derrick henry is running wild... He won't when derrick brown is on the field. All those run stops will only create more 3rd down opportunities, which he is more than capable of taking advantage of. He can develop even more moves under Marinelli. Scary player. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Like I said, Brown to Suh is a fair comparison imo. People were scratching their heads over Suh. He was an athletic freak that just domination.... technique or no technique. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 minute ago, BayRaider said: Like I said, Brown to Suh is a fair comparison imo. People were scratching their heads over Suh. He was an athletic freak that just domination.... technique or no technique. I think he's being disrespected by being compared to a nose. Like I don't understand the traits are so clear to me with brown. He's such an easy evaluation, even as a pass rusher... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Just now, MrOaktown_56 said: I think he's being disrespected by being compared to a nose. Like I don't understand the traits are so clear to me with brown. He's such an easy evaluation, even as a pass rusher... Like I said, nobody was saying this at all two weeks ago. Some front office is pushing this agenda. Could even be Mayock himself. I recently did a Mock today I didn’t publish and Brown fell to 12. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 32 minutes ago, Darbsk said: McKinney's an interesting one, I like him but not as much as Winfield. I think we'll certainly look at him but its just trying to find that sweet spot in the draft where his value and our needs mesh, I wouldn't take him in the first at 19 and he'll be long gone by the third so we'll need a bit of manouvering. I think Gruden would love either Winfield or McKinney. I cringe even bringing this up because I loved his father off and on the field and I love his tape but I keep going back to the fact that I don't want a guy that is under 5'10 that the opposing QB and OC will just flex out their TE and eat us alive again. Not that Karl was 'terrible' in that role but it's just an obvious mismatch. I feel like we need to learn from this. Then you look at the honey badger and the work he did in the slot and coverage over the middle and you think that those guys may have a place. But the difference is he has had years of NFL experience under Todd Bowles, Romeo Crennel and Steve Spagnuolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 46 minutes ago, Darbsk said: McKinney's an interesting one, I like him but not as much as Winfield. I think we'll certainly look at him but its just trying to find that sweet spot in the draft where his value and our needs mesh, I wouldn't take him in the first at 19 and he'll be long gone by the third so we'll need a bit of manouvering. I think Gruden would love either Winfield or McKinney. I agree on the finding the right spot for McKinney tho. I feel like we could trade down with the 12 to the late 1st and pick up a 2nd. This lets us take a wide out like Claypool, Laviska or Jefferson (I love them all), and still get 2 starter on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 54 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Routinely was doubled and even sometimes tripled in the SEC... Look how fast he splits the guards If you block him with 1 guard, he can absolutely destroy you with power. Look at how fast he overwhelms the guard by getting his hands inside. Another rep in where he commands the attention of 3 once he initially beats the guard. Silly what he does to this guard. Horrible clip quality but watch him just shred this guard with a spin move... Thanks for putting those up, really interesting to see though I have seen a fair amount of him. As I said before, I like him and think he'll be a very good player but from the inside in the NFL it is my belief that quickness, knifing through the OL and expolsion is more effective rushing the passer than simply overpowering guys. Bull rushes do work inside and I'm not for a moment suggesting Brown is only a power bulldozer I just see more pass rush upside from Kinlaw. I would be happy with Brown at 12 but project Kinlaw to be a better pass rusher at the next level. I do appreciate the effort you put into the above post though. 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 I think people are underestimating the priority of QBs and Trenches. Like I’m working on a mock right now that has 4 QBs, 4 OTs, D. Brown, and C. Young as the Top 10 picks. As nice as Okudah and Simmons are, they are not important positions, and the OT class is one of the best in NFL History. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, NightTrainLane said: I cringe even bringing this up because I loved his father off and on the field and I love his tape but I keep going back to the fact that I don't want a guy that is under 5'10 that the opposing QB and OC will just flex out their TE and eat us alive again. Not that Karl was 'terrible' in that role but it's just an obvious mismatch. I feel like we need to learn from this. Then you look at the honey badger and the work he did in the slot and coverage over the middle and you think that those guys may have a place. But the difference is he has had years of NFL experience under Todd Bowles, Romeo Crennel and Steve Spagnuolo. Yep, Winfield sr was some player, never seen a CB tackle so aggressively as him. I love that era of football, so many good defences then. I too share some reservations with smaller safeties but I was a big fan of Joseph too and thought he was used very poorly until the last season, I remember sharing the concerns with matching up with TEs when we did our FF mock draft that year, I think myself and Tiberius (not sure if he's around anymore) were his two biggest fans! There is a place for this type of player but that is not man on man with a TE with a 14 inch reach advantage 😀 Edited March 20, 2020 by Darbsk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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