Training Camp/Preseason 2019: 1-3: Time to get to 53

[Thaiphoon]

23 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

You can start talking people at any point. I'm not buying this you cant replace BS. If a Doctor at a hospital does a illegal procedure and it gets reported, you think that Hospital isn't going to be interviewing a replacenent? I don't understand what's the difference. 

They should and could be interviewing people right now, but choose to take a stand and let Williams sit out a whole season possibly. 

Synder is a freaking Billionaire, you cant tell me there is no way possible for him to bring in somebody if he wanted too. Even if it was the person who did Trents second surgery. You can at least have a discussion with that Doctor and offer him to come to Redskins facility to treat Trent on the daily. 

Your analogy is faulty. You're talking about one doctor being replaced out of an entire hospital. I agree we can make a change here or there, but to replace the entire medical staff is equivalent to (using your analogy) replacing all the doctors in the hospital all at once. 

That is not advisable.

[Skins212689]

10 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Your analogy is faulty. You're talking about one doctor being replaced out of an entire hospital. I agree we can make a change here or there, but to replace the entire medical staff is equivalent to (using your analogy) replacing all the doctors in the hospital all at once. 

That is not advisable.

I'm talking about replacing The Head of Staff. I'm also suggesting letting Trents own personal doctor come to the facility to treat him so he doesn't have to deal with the Doctor or Doctor's who he has a problem with. 

The Head of Staff is the one I would think everybody is following directions after. So maybe with a new Head of Staff you get better results from your entire staff. Making it easy to replace 1 person oppose to everybody. 

THEY could and should be interviewing new people for next season even possibly midseason, but Dan is the owner and we know that won't happen. This money for the new staff wouldn't have anything to do with cap space or anything of that nature. This would be Dan spending his Billions on a staff to protect and keep his player's as healthy as possible. 

Edited August 10, 2019 by Skins212689

[mar29020]

you know, maybe we should deal trent and just go young like the browns did. DH is only 21. we should be buiding for when haskins hits his prime, and by then trent will be to old. The pats usually deal guys a year or two before they go downhill. we are kinda at that point with trent due to injuries. We just need to get a nice haul of picks for him.

[e16bball]

I’ve been wondering this for some time about the idea of replacing the “medical staff.”

What is the Redskins’ “medical staff”? Who is part of it? Who are the doctors and whomever else everybody is talking about when they say we need to replace the “medical staff”?

From what I’ve been able to tell, the Redskins’ medical staff is basically Inova’s sports medicine team. You may know Inova from the long-term strategic health and wellness partnership that they formed with the Redskins back in 2016. Perhaps you've seen that they are the Official Health System of the Washington Redskins. You also may recognize their name from the current moniker for what used to be Redskins Park: Inova Sports Performance Center at Redskins Park.

What I’m getting at here is that I don’t think it’s just an issue of the Redskins being unable to fire their “medical staff” right now because of timing or football-related logistics. I think it’s a pretty good bet that they are locked into a long-term, mega-money contractual agreement with this particular medical provider, and it may not be feasible for them to just “fire” Inova — whether they want to or not. 

[e16bball]

10 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Trade Trent and Kerrigan to the Texans for Clowney, a 2nd and conditional 3rd round pick if they both make the pro bowl, 4th if they don’t.

This is actually really interesting, although I suspect Clowney probably has more value than either Trent or Kerrigan, so we might not be able to demand such valuable picks in addition to him. Maybe Clowney + a conditional 3rd or something. 

That would be a ballsy trade. As much as I love Trent and Kerrigan, I think I’d do it. Clowney is a young star, and that front 5 would be absolutely fearsome for the next half-decade or more. 

Plus, it would give Trent and Kerrigan a sure chance to finish up their careers competing for the playoffs and beyond. 

[turtle28]

2 minutes ago, e16bball said:

This is actually really interesting, although I suspect Clowney probably has more value than either Trent or Kerrigan, so we might not be able to demand such valuable picks in addition to him. Maybe Clowney + a conditional 3rd or something. 

That would be a ballsy trade. As much as I love Trent and Kerrigan, I think I’d do it. Clowney is a young star, and that front 5 would be absolutely fearsome for the next half-decade or more. 

Plus, it would give Trent and Kerrigan a sure chance to finish up their careers competing for the playoffs and beyond. 

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

I'm talking about replacing The Head of Staff. I'm also suggesting letting Trents own personal doctor come to the facility to treat him so he doesn't have to deal with the Doctor or Doctor's who he has a problem with.  

Great. Now that you've set that precedent, what happens when Kerrigan wants his own personal doctor? Or Haskins? Or Moses? Or Sweat? Or pretty much anyone else?

You'll end up with 53 personal doctors.

Not advisable.

[Thaiphoon]

54 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I’ve been wondering this for some time about the idea of replacing the “medical staff.”

What is the Redskins’ “medical staff”? Who is part of it? Who are the doctors and whomever else everybody is talking about when they say we need to replace the “medical staff”?

From what I’ve been able to tell, the Redskins’ medical staff is basically Inova’s sports medicine team. You may know Inova from the long-term strategic health and wellness partnership that they formed with the Redskins back in 2016. Perhaps you've seen that they are the Official Health System of the Washington Redskins. You also may recognize their name from the current moniker for what used to be Redskins Park: Inova Sports Performance Center at Redskins Park.

What I’m getting at here is that I don’t think it’s just an issue of the Redskins being unable to fire their “medical staff” right now because of timing or football-related logistics. I think it’s a pretty good bet that they are locked into a long-term, mega-money contractual agreement with this particular medical provider, and it may not be feasible for them to just “fire” Inova — whether they want to or not. 

Thanks. So that makes it even less likely Trent gets what he wants. 

[Skins212689]

34 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Great. Now that you've set that precedent, what happens when Kerrigan wants his own personal doctor? Or Haskins? Or Moses? Or Sweat? Or pretty much anyone else?

You'll end up with 53 personal doctors.

Not advisable.

That's your manager mentality problem! What happens is you have Players happy and actually showing up to training camp. You have failed to accept any responsibility or accountability for your players wanting to have their own Doctor come to the facility. Take responsibility for the fact that something is going on with your Medical staff that seems not to be happening elsewhere around the league. Your Staff did this, Trent didn't do this himself! Where are you taking accountability for that? 

You make excuses and say replacing the Staff would be too much. Now you making excuses and saying all players will want this type of treatment. All players deserve this type of treatment If YOUR MEDICAL STAFF consistently is causing problems for players or have lost the trust of the player's. 

You really don't care about your players is the message I'm getting from you. That's why Trent is not showing up and possibly will never play in a Skins jersey again. So now deal with those consequences! 

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by Skins212689

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

I’ve been wondering this for some time about the idea of replacing the “medical staff.”

What is the Redskins’ “medical staff”? Who is part of it? Who are the doctors and whomever else everybody is talking about when they say we need to replace the “medical staff”?

From what I’ve been able to tell, the Redskins’ medical staff is basically Inova’s sports medicine team. You may know Inova from the long-term strategic health and wellness partnership that they formed with the Redskins back in 2016. Perhaps you've seen that they are the Official Health System of the Washington Redskins. You also may recognize their name from the current moniker for what used to be Redskins Park: Inova Sports Performance Center at Redskins Park.

What I’m getting at here is that I don’t think it’s just an issue of the Redskins being unable to fire their “medical staff” right now because of timing or football-related logistics. I think it’s a pretty good bet that they are locked into a long-term, mega-money contractual agreement with this particular medical provider, and it may not be feasible for them to just “fire” Inova — whether they want to or not. 

Well whatever Syner did to out Brian Lafemina he needs to try to do with them. Even if he can't, accept some responsibility for the displeasure of his players and work something out with them. We don't watch games, buy tickets, ect because of Dan Synder fans do it for the players they cheer for! Fix the freaking issue Danny Boy or you will see your current stadium never Full of Redskins fans and more than likely will never get a deal for a new Stadium.

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

This is actually really interesting, although I suspect Clowney probably has more value than either Trent or Kerrigan, so we might not be able to demand such valuable picks in addition to him. Maybe Clowney + a conditional 3rd or something. 

That would be a ballsy trade. As much as I love Trent and Kerrigan, I think I’d do it. Clowney is a young star, and that front 5 would be absolutely fearsome for the next half-decade or more. 

Plus, it would give Trent and Kerrigan a sure chance to finish up their careers competing for the playoffs and beyond. 

I wouldn't trust Clowney. I think especially here with coaches wanting to be players friend's. He WOULD get a extention and never live up to that deal. Kerrigan we know works his *** off and produces. I'm afraid to give Him away for Clowney. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Clowney is a great run defender, but no way am I trading Trent and Kerrigan for a guy who has chronic knee injuries and has never had double-digit sacks in his 5-year career.

[Marcus21]

I should start this by saying that I really like Trent as a player. His skill is undeniable, and I admire his toughness!!! That being said, I think its time to move on. Trent is acting like a petulant child. He chose to sign a contract that was longer and heavily front loaded. At the time he signed it, 3 years ago, he was the highest paid Tackle in the league. He is still in the top six offensive linemen in the league. The Redskins stood by Trent through 2 failed drug tests and suspensions...And gave him a huge contract. I cant remember the last time Trent played 16 games probably because its been so long!!!  This hold out is obviously about money....I think the losing faith in the medical staff is a cover for his wanting one last guaranteed contract. I hope the front office will wait until the time is right and trade him for the most they can get for him......

There is a chance a playoff team will have an injury and get desperate then over spend... I would take a late first or early second for Trent!!!!! in a heart beat

[Thaiphoon]

3 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

That's your manager mentality problem! What happens is you have Players happy and actually showing up to training camp.

Ahem, I've been one of the posters who have wanted the medical/training staff gone for years. Don't make any mistake about it.

As for players happy and showing up to training camp. Only one isn't. The rest are there. So, I'm failing to see the point you're trying to make that the medical staff is causing mass holdouts of our roster.

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You have failed to accept any responsibility or accountability for your players wanting to have their own Doctor come to the facility. 

Nothing is stopping the players from having their own doctors. Nothing. However, having each player have their own personal doctor supplied by the team in the team facility creates a whole host of issues (financial, logistical, practical, medical,etc...). It's why you don't see it happen. And if so, it's very very rare.

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Take responsibility for the fact that something is going on with your Medical staff that seems not to be happening elsewhere around the league. Your Staff did this, Trent didn't do this himself! Where are you taking accountability for that? 

Again, no one is saying not to take responsibility for the medical staff. But again, and this is for the umpteenth time now, the medical staff are NOT ONCOLOGISTS!!!

They are sports medicine doctors. Who deal with sports injuries. They are not oncologists who diagnose and treat cancer. 

Understand the difference, now? 

The team doctors told Trent to go get a 2nd opinion....by....HIS OWN DOCTORS!!

He waited. And when he eventually did they removed the growth. Which was benign.

End of story.

Firing the entire staff or allowing him to have his own personal doctor who only treats him is not going to fix the issue you think needs to be resolved.

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You make excuses and say replacing the Staff would be too much. 

It would at this point. You can't fire the entire staff at this point.

And given e16bballs assertion that its a multiyear multimillion dollar contract, I doubt they break it for one player. Even one like Trent.

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Now you making excuses and saying all players will want this type of treatment.

If you allow one player to have that type of treatment, every player will demand it in their contract. Good luck getting anything done in a cohesive manner when 53 players all have their own doctor.

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All players deserve this type of treatment If YOUR MEDICAL STAFF consistently is causing problems for players or have lost the trust of the player's. 

All players deserve the best treatment possible. This is true. But again, hiring 53 individual doctors to treat the players individually is not a smart move. I really shouldn't have to spell out why.

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You really don't care about your players is the message I'm getting from you. 

Where have I said this? I've been one of the posters who has railed against the medical/training staff for years now. The problem you're having is that you've never apparently had to actually manage any group of people and never had to coordinate resources to support them. In my day job, I am in charge of 10 Task Orders (Contracts) which total about $250M. You're engaging in the "in the weeds" viewpoint that a line employee would have. Which I don't take issue with since that is all you've apparently been seeing. Take a moment to zoom out a bit and get the bigger picture from up above to understand how one change that you think isn't such a big deal can affect the organization. Off the top of my head I can see one issue (there are many more beyond this one), imagine the jealousy and cancerous atmosphere it brings to the locker room when one player is getting his own doctor and others aren't. So then you have 53 different doctors treating your players individually. All doing things their own way and on their own timetable. You cannot have any part of your staff (even medical) doing things 53 different ways and hope to maintain a cohesive strategy of prevention, healing, recovery, getting back on the field. That might be fine if you're running a hospital who are treating 53 individuals who happen to come into the ER. But you're trying to field a football team. 

And that is just one facet of how a single change that seems so easy to make (and when you're in the weeds doesn't seem like a big deal) has broader implications when you pan out and view it from management's perspective.

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That's why Trent is not showing up 

Trent's not showing up because he wants more $$. I'm not convinced this is only because of the medical staff. I think the medical staff is a convenient foil for him to extract a new contract out of the Redskins. And yes, I'll give him a mea culpa about our staff while guaranteeing his 2019 salary and converting it into a bonus. But that's the extent of the $$ flowing to him right now.

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and possibly will never play in a Skins jersey again.

That's up to Trent. At this point, if the Redskins offer to guarantee 2019 salary and then talk with him to see what can be done about his concerns with the medical staff (short of firing everyone or giving him his own doctor), and he still wants to hold out?

Great. That's his call to make.

But know this...

We lost with him. We can lose without him.

Let's go through it:

1. He's on the wrong side of 30
2. He's missed 16 games in the last 3 years
3. He was our most penalized OL last year (if you've watched him, his skills are declining)
4. He's got 2 strikes in the drug protocol (next one is one year ban)
5. You can scheme your way to help out an average LT so that Trent's absence is not that greatly felt. Lots of teams are able to do it without having a guy like Trent at LT
6. Trent is almost all salary in 2019 and 2020. Which means all of the guaranteed money in his current contract has already been paid to him. Which means that if he doesn't show, that is about (IIRC) $27M total (2019 and 2020) he is missing out on. And from the Redskins perspective, this is already a sunk cost in terms of the cap.
7. He is currently on the Reserve: Did Not Report list. Which means that if he sits out this year and next, the Redskins do not have to pay him and he is...wait for it...STILL A REDSKIN! Oh dear...guess he didn't think that through.
8. Given the reality of #7, if Trent does sit out both years. He will then be a 33 year old OT with declining skills, who hasn't played in 2 years (out of football shape), who is still not going to play in the NFL because his rights belong to the team he swears he'll never play for.
9. Given #7 and #8, he can kiss any thoughts of a HOF bust in Canton goodbye.
10. Given #7 and #8, I hope he's saved his money. Because he won't get another dime playing football again

 

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So now deal with those consequences! 

The one dealing with the consequences the most is Trent if he continues to sit out. He sits out 2019 and the Redskins simply replace him in 2020. It's not ideal from the team standpoint to have to do that, but in the grand view of things, this hurts Trent more long term than it does the Redskins. Like I said, we lost with him, we can lose without him.

[taylor made]

Good points, especially about the drug tests