College Football and NFL Draft Discussion

[Horseunit]

Derrick Brown is a BAD Man. I know he's not a top need but man I would love to put him next to Myles and Obi-One.

[Mind Character]

.update below

Edited November 18, 2019 by Mind Character

[hornbybrown]

4 hours ago, Mind Character said:

Mock Draft (Browns Pick 17th Scenario)

** I've said it for a while. The 2nd half of the season easy schedule is going to lead to many wins and cause our draft position to plummet. IMO, we'll have to trade up into the top 12 at least for a chance at the elite OTs (Thomas, Wills, Wilson) or good OT (Leatherwood). The remaining tackle prospects aren't worthy of our first round selection, especially relative to other actual elite prospects available at other positions so we shouldn't just reach for need.

1st Round:

1.) Bengals -- Joe Burrow, QB LSU

2.) Washington -- Andrew Thomas, LT Georgia

3.) Dolphins -- Justin Herbert, QB Oregon

4.) Atlanta -- Chase Young, DE Ohio State

5.) Giants -- Isaiah Wilson, RT Georgia

 6.) Broncos -- Alex Leatherwood, LT Alabama

7.) Lions -- Jeff Okudah, CB Ohio State

8.) Cardinals -- CeeDee Lamb, WR Oklahoma

9.) Jets -- Jerry Jeudy, WR Alabama

10.) Chargers -- Kristian Fulton, CB LSU

 11.) Titans --  Jedrick Wills, OT Alabama   

12.) Steelers -- Derrick Brown, NT Auburn

13.) Bears -- Tristan Wirfs, OG Iowa 

14.) Tampa Bay -- AJ Epenesa, DE Iowa

15.) Carolina Panthers-- C.J. Henderson, CB/NCB/FS Florida 

16.) Jacksonville Jaguars --  Bryce Hall, CB Virginia

17.) Browns -- At this point in the draft, the most elite prospects available will be at Wide Receiver. Guys like Michael Pittman Jr., WR USC; Laviska Shenault, WR Colorado; Henry Ruggs III., WR Alabama, DeVonta Smith, WR Alabama can all make a tremendous impact as boundary WRs playmakers that provide speed threat (Pittman Jr. not as much). Other elite prospects at their positions will likely also be available such as Kenneth Murray, LB Oklahoma. For me, the "fools=gold" prospects available here that fans will want because mostly their name has buzz in the pre draft process are Grant Delpit, S LSU and Isaiah Simmons, LB/S Clemson. To me, Delpit the whiff-master with bad instincts/eyes is one of the more overrated prospects in the entire draft and should go in the mid/late 2nd to early 3rd. Simmons is a player I loved early in the evaluation process,, and he can do it all; however, with more film watched I just don't see him ever being more than an slightly above average contributor as he doesn't play with force, great instincts, or athletic explosiveness. I'd take him if there weren't other elite prospects available at other positions but their will be.

At 17, we should trade down as our primary option. Beyond that, it would come down to an elite Guard prospect, an elite LB prospects, a near-elite WR prospect. or average safeties. In that case I'm going for  Shane Lemieux, OG Oregon. I know everyone thinks Drew Forbes will be the guy, but Lemieux has all the qualities and tools to be an elite immediate pro-bowl Guard. Like all prospects he has his own deficiencies but his primary issues with functional strength aren't bad and can improve.. Baker's the type of QB whereby inside pressure can be devastating. Draft Lemieux in the 1st and hope that a WR falls to us in the 2nd as a way to make lemonade out of lemons.

2nd Round:

2(49) Trade Up and do anything we have to do to get Michael Pittman Jr., WR USC

Not ideal but where we are picking we are not getting the ideal draft. 

[Mind Character]

Updated Mock Draft (Browns Pick 17th Scenario):

** I've said it for a while. The 2nd half of the season easy schedule is going to lead to many wins and cause our draft position to plummet. IMO, we'll have to trade up into the top 12 at least for a chance at the elite OTs (Thomas, Wills, Wilson) or good OT (Leatherwood). The remaining tackle prospects aren't worthy of our first round selection, especially relative to other actual elite prospects available at other positions so we shouldn't just reach for need.

1st Round:

1.) Bengals -- Joe Burrow, QB LSU

2.) Washington -- Andrew Thomas, LT Georgia

3.) Dolphins -- Justin Herbert, QB Oregon

4.) Atlanta -- Chase Young, DE Ohio State

5.) Giants -- Jedrick Wills, OT Alabama                           

 6.) Broncos -- Alex Leatherwood, LT Alabama

7.) Lions -- Jeff Okudah, CB Ohio State

8.) Cardinals -- CeeDee Lamb, WR Oklahoma

9.) Jets -- Jerry Jeudy, WR Alabama

10.) Chargers -- Kristian Fulton, CB LSU

 11.) Titans  -- Derrick Brown, NT Auburn   

12.) Broncos --  Isaiah Wilson, RT Georgia

13.) Bears -- Tristan Wirfs, OG Iowa 

14.) Tampa Bay -- AJ Epenesa, DE Iowa

15.) Carolina Panthers -- C.J. Henderson, CB/NCB/FS Florida 

16.) Jacksonville Jaguars -- Bryce Hall, CB Virginia

17.) Browns -- Shane Lemieux, OG Oregon.  At this point in the draft, the most elite prospects available will be at Wide Receiver. Guys like Michael Pittman Jr., WR USC; Laviska Shenault, WR Colorado; Henry Ruggs III., WR Alabama, DeVonta Smith, WR Alabama can all make a tremendous impact as boundary WRs playmakers that provide speed threat (Pittman Jr. not as much). Other elite prospects at their positions will likely also be available such as Kenneth Murray, LB Oklahoma. For me, the "fools=gold" prospects available here that fans will want because mostly their name has buzz in the pre draft process are Grant Delpit, S LSU and Isaiah Simmons, LB/S Clemson. To me, Delpit the whiff-master with bad instincts/eyes is one of the more overrated prospects in the entire draft and should go in the mid/late 2nd to early 3rd. Simmons is a player I loved early in the evaluation process,, and he can do it all; however, with more film watched I just don't see him ever being more than an slightly above average contributor as he doesn't play with force, great instincts, or athletic explosiveness. I'd take him if there weren't other elite prospects available at other positions but their will be.

At 17, we should trade down as our primary option. Beyond that, it would come down to an elite Guard prospect, an elite LB prospects, a near-elite WR prospect. or average safeties. In that case I'm going for  Shane Lemieux, OG Oregon. I know everyone thinks Drew Forbes will be the guy, but Lemieux has all the qualities and tools to be an elite immediate pro-bowl Guard. Like all prospects he has his own deficiencies but his primary issues with functional strength aren't bad and can improve.. Baker's the type of QB whereby inside pressure can be devastating. Draft Lemieux in the 1st and hope that a WR falls to us in the 2nd as a way to make lemonade out of lemons.

2nd Round:

2(49) Trade Up and do anything we have to do to get Michael Pittman Jr., WR USC

[MWil23]

Our OG situation isn't awful...I'd be very irritated to see us use a 1st on one. We need OT/S/TE and one could also argue DT help before OG IMO.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

I’ll be pissed if we spend a 1st on a WR or OG.

WR isn’t enough of a need to warrant spending a first on.

Quality guards are easily found in rounds 2-3.  If they’re elite, cool, not gonna be mad, but I think there are other positions that I’d prefer to spend that pick on.

[BleedTheClock]

14 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I’ll be pissed if we spend a 1st on a WR or OG.

WR isn’t enough of a need to warrant spending a first on.

Quality guards are easily found in rounds 2-3.  If they’re elite, cool, not gonna be mad, but I think there are other positions that I’d prefer to spend that pick on.

Yeah I don't want a WR at all. We don't need one whatsoever.

A guard, however, we could absolutely use. And I'm not opposed to spending a 1st round pick on an elite one.

Tyler Biadasz is the only elite interior OL in this class from the little I've seen of it so far. He's my preferred targeted 1st rounder as of right now. He also has C/G versatility for the future.

 

I'd go:

 

1st: C/Tyler Biadacz
2nd: OT/Alaric Jackson
3rd: TE
4th: S

 

Get a starting OT in FA to pair with your 2nd round pick.

[buno67]

3 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Get a starting OT in FA to pair with your 2nd round pick.

I want them to get Conklin

[matt27j]

I'm down with signing an OT if possible, as well as safeties. Trade up if you have to for another OT. 

[Mind Character]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I’ll be pissed if we spend a 1st on a WR or OG.

WR isn’t enough of a need to warrant spending a first on.

Quality guards are easily found in rounds 2-3.  If they’re elite, cool, not gonna be mad, but I think there are other positions that I’d prefer to spend that pick on.

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Our OG situation isn't awful...I'd be very irritated to see us use a 1st on one. We need OT/S/TE and one could also argue DT help before OG IMO.

I absolutely, unequivocally don't want to spend our 1st round pick on a WR or a Guard when we have more pressing needs imo.

A lot of people will celebrate no matter what as long as we draft a Tackle "Nice that's a big need and we got a guy." I won't be... if that Tackle isn't a real guy. 

I'd rather draft a player at another position that has elite impact ability rather than drafting a much lesser player to satisfy need, and I honestly don't think any of the elite or even quality starter Tackle prospects will make it to around where we're likely to be picking if when we keep winning. So then the option is do we take an elite pro-bowl quality player at another position or do we take the lesser player at Tackle which is a serious need? 

You can't just draft for need if there are elite prospects at other positions available, especially at positions that can our roster can stand to upgrade and or fill.

Also, my mock took into account other teams needs and the prospects available and a lot of them have Tackle needs.

@MWil23 I'm right there with you in thinking that we have more pressing needs than Guard (I say LT and RT), but  I guess I'm just puzzled with your belief that our OG situation isn't awful. We switched players mid-season because our starter Eric Kush was struggling mightily giving up pressure and getting pushed back. The guy who replaced him (Wyatt Teller) has been a degree worse unfortunately. I mean it man though I wish it wasn't the case go back and look at Teller's play since he's been starting. It's really bad man. It just is. Add to the fact that all QBs but especially Baker and some of his game deficiencies needs to feel secure against inside pressure. It all points to the fact that we need a RG and that need should be pretty high on the list. 

I have our needs priority at: 1.) RT // 2.) LT, // 3.) RG, // 4.) SS, // 5.) DE, // 6.) Blocking-Receiving TE, // 7.) WR, // 8.) DT

 

1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said:

Yeah I don't want a WR at all. We don't need one whatsoever.

A guard, however, we could absolutely use. And I'm not opposed to spending a 1st round pick on an elite one.

I love Tyler Biadasz, but it would be a shame to move him to guard where he has all-pro play traits. Let him be great at his position where his elite anchor and instincts/feel for the game in the Center phone booth shine. He doesn't play with length nor does he have the blocking play traits to really shine at Guard imo.

I have no clue how we don't have a need at WR at all. Higgins is a UFA and possession WR who's going to walk after this year. After that it's Khadarel Hodge who looked good in a few snaps but bad in others. Even with Higgins returning and all the good things he brings, a personnel grouping of Jarvis, Higgins, TE, and OBJ will always be a cluttered route space as defenders sit on Higgins and Jarvis and devote extra resources to Odell over the top and underneath. That means at best that leave your TE or Higgins with a potential favorable match-up. An actual threat at the WR2 boundary, would free up OBJ, Jarvis, and others to have favorable match-ups more often than not.

Right now, it is so easy to scheme for our WR group because of Jarvis' speed threat deficiencies as a boundary WR. It allows the defense to devote resources to take away Beckham as we don't have a countervailing force to really make them pay nor do we have a deep ball or speed short game threat to open up space for our TEs and others to work. I've said it multiple times that another viable WR option with the gravity to take some of the defenses focus and resources  would be a game changer success multiplier that would have trickle down effects on Jarvis Landry, OBJ, our TEs, our pass catching RB (Kareem Hunt), Baker, and our rushing back (Nick Chubb). A playmaker at WR makes this offense an explosive juggernaut.

Now, I don't see WR as one of our top needs but it's a need.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Mind Character

[Mind Character]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Quality guards are easily found in rounds 2-3.  If they’re elite, cool, not gonna be mad, but I think there are other positions that I’d prefer to spend that pick on.

That's why if the Tackles are gone I think trading down has to be the primary option. 

Indeed, I'd only take a guard in the 1st if that guard is elite. I think there are around 4 elite Guards with the guy I had us taking (Shane Lemieux, OG Oregon) being one of them).  I'm only taking a player at 17 that I think can be elite or a high quality starter.

ehh... feels like quality at that position in rounds 2 or 3 but this year's Guard class isn't as deep.

If the elite tackles are gone, we should trade down. If we stay put, the most elite prospects at a position that could benefit us will be at WR and possibly Guard imo so I'd take the Best Player Available.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, Mind Character said:

That's why if the Tackles are gone I think trading down

. 

1 minute ago, Mind Character said:

has to be the primary option. 

Indeed, I'd only take a guard in the 1st if that guard is elite. I think there are around 4 elite Guards with the guy I had us taking (Shane Lemieux, OG Oregon) being one of them).  I'm only taking a player at 17 that I think can be elite or a high quality starter.

ehh... feels like quality at that position in rounds 2 or 3 but this year's Guard class isn't as deep.

If the elite tackles are gone, we should trade down. If we stay put, the most elite prospects at a position that could benefit us will be at WR and possibly Guard imo so I'd take the Best Player Available.

Agreed.

[BleedTheClock]

1 hour ago, Mind Character said:

Right now, it is so easy to scheme for our WR group because of Jarvis' speed threat deficiencies as a boundary WR. It allows the defense to devote resources to take away Beckham as we don't have a countervailing force to really make them pay nor do we have a deep ball or speed short game threat to open up space for our TEs and others to work. I've said it multiple times that another viable WR option with the gravity to take some of the defenses focus and resources  would be a game changer success multiplier that would have trickle down effects on Jarvis Landry, OBJ, our TEs, our pass catching RB (Kareem Hunt), Baker, and our rushing back (Nick Chubb). A playmaker at WR makes this offense an explosive juggernaut.

I agree with you, but there's still no need to spend a 1st round pick on a speedster. You can find a field stretcher anywhere.

[BleedTheClock]

2 hours ago, buno67 said:

I want them to get Conklin

I'd be all about that. He has an injury history, but he's nasty.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, BleedTheClock said:

I'd be all about that. He has an injury history, but he's nasty.

BuT tHe CuLtuRe!