TitanSS Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, dtait93 said: Kline sucked, Spain sucked outside of run blocking, and Jones was not playing as well as he was last year and Kelly looked better to me last year than Conklin has this year. The linemen sucking next to him is a bad excuse. If Conklin looks superior to you than Kelly idk what you're watching. Unless you're going off Conklin last year when he clearly wasn't ready to come back, right back atcha. He's been considerably better this year. Conklin is a good margin better than Kelly. We do everything we can to avoid putting Kelly in the same situations Conklin is being ripped on for. Kelly will never go 1-on-1 with any decent edge rusher, nor should he unless the ball is coming out in 2 seconds flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 29 minutes ago, dtait93 said: We could keep Kelly for cheaper who I believe gives you at the very least similar production, but who’s also proven to be much more versatile. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, my man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanRedd Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Kelly is better at tackle than Conklin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, TitanSS said: Unless you're going off Conklin last year when he clearly wasn't ready to come back, right back atcha. He's been considerably better this year. Conklin is a good margin better than Kelly. We do everything we can to avoid putting Kelly in the same situations Conklin is being ripped on for. Kelly will never go 1-on-1 with any decent edge rusher, nor should he unless the ball is coming out in 2 seconds flat. This isn't even close to being true. He was put in plenty of 1 on 1 situations against Jabaal Sheard, Ryan Kerrigan, Trey Flowers, DeMarcus Lawrence and Cameron Wake and held his own against all of them. Was he flawless? No. But he's sure as hell been better than Conklin this year. Like you said, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanLegend Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, dtait93 said: Kline sucked, Spain sucked outside of run blocking, and Jones was not playing as well as he was last year and Kelly looked better to me last year than Conklin has this year. The linemen sucking next to him is a bad excuse. If Conklin looks superior to you than Kelly idk what you're watching. Kline didn't suck as much as you might think he did, and neither did Spain. Both Saffold and Douglas/Davis are playing at a worse level(considerably worse in the case of Douglas/Davis) than Spain or Kline ever did here. The difference in the line play last year after Kelly was put in is Kelly was a considerable upgrade to last year's Conklin because our idiot training staff decided to rush back Conklin way before he was even close to ready(just like they're about to do to Simmons I bet). It's not a coincidence that the line looked considerably better to end the year once Kelly replaced Conklin on the right side. Again, the offensive line as a unit relies on each other more than any other unit. And Conklin last year was a god damn tragedy at RT. Kelly was/is a serviceable right tackle, which is leaps and bounds better than last year's Conklin. Started getting improved play at that position and hey, all the sudden, Kline doesn't look like a turnstile. Funny how that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, TitanLegend said: Kline didn't suck as much as you might think he did, and neither did Spain. Both Saffold and Douglas/Davis are playing at a worse level(considerably worse in the case of Douglas/Davis) than Spain or Kline ever did here. Kline and Spain both were not good in pass protection last year. It's exactly why neither were brought back. You said it is hard for Conklin to look good when the rest of the o-line is getting destroyed, but the o-line was also getting destroyed last year and Kelly still looked good. 5 minutes ago, TitanLegend said: The difference in the line play last year after Kelly was put in is Kelly was a considerable upgrade to last year's Conklin because our idiot training staff decided to rush back Conklin way before he was even close to ready(just like they're about to do to Simmons I bet). It's not a coincidence that the line looked considerably better to end the year once Kelly replaced Conklin on the right side. Again, the offensive line as a unit relies on each other more than any other unit. And Conklin last year was a god damn tragedy at RT. Kelly was/is a serviceable right tackle, which is leaps and bounds better than last year's Conklin. No argument there. The question though isn't whether Kelly is better than last year's Conklin, it's is he better than this year's Conklin? 9 minutes ago, TitanLegend said: Started getting improved play at that position and hey, all the sudden, Kline doesn't look like a turnstile. Funny how that works. He was 100% still a turnstil man. If he wasn't then he wouldn't have gotten released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 At the end of the day one of two things need to happen. 1) Kelly replaces Conklin at RT and we slide Conklin inside and see if he can play RG. 2) Conklin remains at RT and Kelly replaces Davis at RG. I don't even want to see Pamphile tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanLegend Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just now, dtait93 said: Kline and Spain both were not good in pass protection last year. It's exactly why neither were brought back. You said it is hard for Conklin to look good when the rest of the o-line is getting destroyed, but the o-line was also getting destroyed last year and Kelly still looked good. No argument there. The question though isn't whether Kelly is better than last year's Conklin, it's is he better than this year's Conklin? He was 100% still a turnstil man. If he wasn't then he wouldn't have gotten released. Except after we made the upgrade at RT the o-line was not getting destroyed anymore. Over the final 3 games(which Kelly started all 3), the offensive line allowed 4.6 pressures per game. Can even look at the Dallas game where he came in and Mariota went from getting destroyed every other play(or it felt like anyway) to having decent pockets to play in. The offensive line over the first 13 allowed 9 a game. This is only counting allowed pressures by offensive lineman/not counting any allowed by TEs/RBs or attributed to QB error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, TitanLegend said: Except after we made the upgrade at RT the o-line was not getting destroyed anymore. Over the final 3 games(which Kelly started all 3), the offensive line allowed 4.6 pressures per game. Can even look at the Dallas game where he came in and Mariota went from getting destroyed every other play(or it felt like anyway) to having decent pockets to play in. The offensive line over the first 13 allowed 9 a game. This is only counting allowed pressures by offensive lineman/not counting any allowed by TEs/RBs or attributed to QB error. That's not a good comparison. A small sample size against the Giants, Redskins, and Colts doesn't really compare to the sizeable sample size of Texans x2, Jaguars x2, Eagles, Bills, Ravens, Chargers, Cowboys, Patriots, Colts, and Jets. The fronts the o-line faced with Conklin were considerably tougher than the fronts the o-line faced with Kelly. The gap would still exist, but it wouldn't be as gigantic with comparable sample sizes against fronts with similar levels of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) http://www.1045thezone.com/midday-180/ Podcast with Blake Beddingfield: "Dennis is a good backup player. He's not a 16 week player." "Jack's playing at an above average level. He's playing solid." At least someone who watches more film than us agrees with me. Conklin has absolutely bad splash plays and we see those on the field, and if you're someone who lives on Twitter you probably hate him, but it doesn't negate the fact that he's had very little help all season long and held his own for the most part. I said it last week and I stand by it, not only does he not need to be moved to OG, he is an above average RT. The idea that Kelly is better is insane to me, honestly. He gets a lot of help and doesn't give up the splash plays Conklin does on an island with the protection slid away from him to help Kelly. He's getting resigned at RT. I'd take a look at Kelly at RG though. Edited October 9, 2019 by TitanSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, TitanSS said: http://www.1045thezone.com/midday-180/ Podcast with Blake Beddingfield: "Dennis is a good backup player. He's not a 16 week player." "Jack's playing at an above average level. He's playing solid." At least someone who watches more film than us agrees with me. Conklin has absolutely bad splash plays and we see those on the field, and if you're someone who lives on Twitter you probably hate him, but it doesn't negate the fact that he's had very little help all season long and held his own for the most part. I said it last week and I stand by it, not only does he not need to be moved to OG, he is an above average RT. The idea that Kelly is better is insane to me, honestly. He gets a lot of help and doesn't give up the splash plays Conklin does on an island with the protection slid away from him to help Kelly. He's getting resigned at RT. I'd take a look at Kelly at RG though. people would be a lot more favorable toward conklin if he didn't have a black hole of incompetence right beside him at RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 54 minutes ago, TitanSS said: http://www.1045thezone.com/midday-180/ Podcast with Blake Beddingfield: "Dennis is a good backup player. He's not a 16 week player." "Jack's playing at an above average level. He's playing solid." At least someone who watches more film than us agrees with me. Conklin has absolutely bad splash plays and we see those on the field, and if you're someone who lives on Twitter you probably hate him, but it doesn't negate the fact that he's had very little help all season long and held his own for the most part. I said it last week and I stand by it, not only does he not need to be moved to OG, he is an above average RT. The idea that Kelly is better is insane to me, honestly. He gets a lot of help and doesn't give up the splash plays Conklin does on an island with the protection slid away from him to help Kelly. He's getting resigned at RT. I'd take a look at Kelly at RG though. He also said Mariota is playing well, and the 5 best o-linemen are the 5 that were out there on Sunday...meaning he thinks Davis, who is getting abused, is a better option than Kelly at RG and Kelly wouldn’t improve anything on an offensive line that’s on pace to allow 70 sacks. His evaluation isn’t gospel. He also gave absolutely zero reason why Kelly is only a solid 3-4 week starter after he admitted he’s better on the right than he his the left. He also gave zero reason why Conklin’s been better at RT this year than Kelly was last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, dtait93 said: He also said Mariota is playing well, and the 5 best o-linemen are the 5 that were out there on Sunday...meaning he thinks Davis, who is getting abused, is a better option than Kelly at RG and Kelly wouldn’t improve anything on an offensive line that’s on pace to allow 70 sacks. His evaluation isn’t gospel. He also gave absolutely zero reason why Kelly is only a solid 3-4 week starter after he admitted he’s better on the right than he his the left. He also gave zero reason why Conklin’s been better at RT this year than Kelly was last year. Saying he's better on the right than on the left isn't saying a lot. It would be hard to be worse on the right than he was on the left. They gave him an incredible amount of help on the left this year so that he wasn't abused. Mariota has played well the last two games and I'm one of his biggest detractors. He had a really bad stretch in the two division games though. But I don't always agree with Beddingfield either. I just cited that because I heard that this morning and it went along with what I thought and I'm not going to spend an hour trying to go through Twitter to show 6 clips that I feel support my argument lol. I'm sure they'll ask Cossell today as well, so it will be interesting to see if he is on the same page. Edited October 9, 2019 by TitanSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, TitanSS said: Saying he's better on the right than on the left isn't saying a lot. It would be hard to be worse on the right than he was on the left. They gave him an incredible amount of help on the left this year so that he wasn't abused. When you consider how well he played it is saying a lot. It’s a completely different position and he played really well. We weren’t even close to giving him the amount of help on the right as we did on the left. Again, not sure how you can take his evaluation seriously when he’s saying our 5 best o-linemen include a rookie who’s played in 2 games and looks lost out there. He’s literally not even open to trying Kelly at either guard or tackle and wants to ride out an o-line that’s on pace to give up 70 sacks. That’s literally stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just now, dtait93 said: When you consider how well he played it is saying a lot. It’s a completely different position and he played really well. We weren’t even close to giving him the amount of help on the right as we did on the left. Again, not sure how you can take his evaluation seriously when he’s saying our 5 best o-linemen include a rookie who’s played in 2 games and looks lost out there. He’s literally not even open to trying Kelly at either guard or tackle and wants to ride out an o-line that’s on pace to give up 70 sacks. That’s literally stupid. He said it was out best 5. He never said our best 5 were any good. Basically, you can try any combinations you want, he doesn't think it's getting any better. Changing things up is change for the sake of change, it doesn't mean it's realistically going to get any better. I think our best 5 is basically what we have with Pamphile at RG. Saffold needs to play up to his expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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