Elky Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, VanS said: Very simple. Baker Mayfield is not a great enough QB to cover the flaws on the team. Most people mistakenly assumed that he was a elite franchise QB. He's not. He's just another guy. The type of QB that needs ideal conditions to succeed. He needs to have a great coach with the ideal scheme. He needs a great o-line and skill position players. And he needs a great defense. He's not the caliber of QB that can raise the level of his teammates. He's the type of QB that needs a great team and coach to elevate him. Similar to Jared Goff. So we're gonna forget how he instantly made Cleveland competitive one year after they went 0-16? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 ^^^^^^^^^^^ He's right. I'd rather have Josh Dobbs. Talk about star power, leadership, intelligence, and sheer physical attributes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 9 hours ago, evilpimp972 said: The problem is that the team was hyped because they thought they had the best WR duo in the league and a top 10 qb to pass them the ball. Turns out Baker is looking more and more like Jameis Winston. Oline is bad but great at run blocking, Baker is seeing ghost and having no pocket awareness. Their defense is still good, cbs will be back anyway. Jameis Winston is better than Mayfield. He's actually got pretty good talent. Mayfield's hype was predicated on his collegiate production not his physical traits. We're now seeing that it was more about Lincoln Riley's scheme than Baker Mayfield's talent. Since Mayfield left Oklahoma we've seen two other QBs (Kyler Murray and Jalen Hurts) go into the same system and out produce him. With Jalen Hurts being a guy people thought couldn't pass when he played at Alabama. Baker Mayfield is looking more like a system player than an actual 1st round talent right now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, DawgX said: For a rookie going up against a top 1-2 defense, yeah they were pretty good. Put up 340+ each game, 4 TDs but also 4 INTs. Certainly nothing amazing but pretty damn solid for how good Baltimore's defense was last season. And especially when the first game was being coached by good ol' Hue Jackson. I'm not suggesting he had terrible games, but using those games as evidence for playing well seems kind of misleading. I think they were decent games, but as you noted the 4 picks and < 59% completion rate aren't great, especially when one of the picks was a backbreaking interception to end the game as they were almost in FG range in week 17. He did accumulate yards, and I will give him credit for that, but I'm just not ready to call those "good" games as much as I would say they weren't bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Just now, Soggust said: I'm not suggesting he had terrible games, but using those games as evidence for playing well seems kind of misleading. I think they were decent games, but as you noted the 4 picks and < 59% completion rate aren't great, especially when one of the picks was a backbreaking interception to end the game as they were almost in FG range in week 17. He did accumulate yards, and I will give him credit for that, but I'm just not ready to call those "good" games as much as I would say they weren't bad. On 4th Down? I hear you on the sub 60% and the other 3 INT, but using that pick as justification is an absolute joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Elky said: So we're gonna forget how he instantly made Cleveland competitive one year after they went 0-16? The Browns were competitive to start last season with Tyrod Taylor. They tied the Steelers in Week 1 last year (a team that went on to blow them out later in the season when Mayfield was the starter) and then in Week 2 they lost by a FG to a New Orleans Saints that went on to finish the season 13-3. If Baker Mayfield never played a down last year they were gonna be competitive. Did Mayfield give them some added juice? Sure. He had a good rookie season. But we've also seen many a bust at the QB position have a good rookie season. RG3 famously set the league on fire as a rookie. Vince Young also had a good rookie season. Marcus Mariota was good as a rookie. Even Josh Freeman had one good season in the NFL. One good season doesn't mean much. Consistency is what makes a great QB. Not a couple of good games against mediocre teams in your rookie season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotun_Fan Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 A crappy O-line will make any QB and HC look worse. Great coaches and QBs can sometimes find a way, but it's not looking like Kitchens is falling into that category and baker isn't there. Young team, young qb, young coach, bad days should be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, MWil23 said: ^^^^^^^^^^^ He's right. I'd rather have Josh Dobbs. Talk about star power, leadership, intelligence, and sheer physical attributes. Stay on topic. This thread is about Baker Mayfield. When Josh Dobbs gets his shot in this league we can talk about what he is and isn't. I've stated multiple times I have not budged from my pre-draft assesment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, VanS said: The Browns were competitive to start last season with Tyrod Taylor. They tied the Steelers in Week 1 last year (a team that went on to blow them out later in the season when Mayfield was the starter) and then in Week 2 they lost by a FG to a New Orleans Saints that went on to finish the season 13-3. If Baker Mayfield never played a down last year they were gonna be competitive. Did Mayfield give them some added juice? Sure. He had a good rookie season. But we've also seen many a bust at the QB position have a good rookie season. RG3 famously set the league on fire as a rookie. Vince Young also had a good rookie season. Marcus Mariota was good as a rookie. Even Josh Freeman had one good season in the NFL. One good season doesn't mean much. Consistency is what makes a great QB. Not a couple of good games against mediocre teams in your rookie season. They didn't win a single game under Tyrod Taylor and started winning when Baker started. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, MWil23 said: On 4th Down? I hear you on the sub 60% and the other 3 INT, but using that pick as justification is an absolute joke. You’re saying that like it was a Hail Mary or a forced ball with no other options. Seems like he had an open receiver but the ball was tipped at the line and didn’t even make it to the guy. This wasn’t a situational pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I still think Baker is the Quarterback That Was Promised to Cleveland. Besides him going through a sophomore slump/young QB growing pains, the o-line has been a disaster and Kitchens has been disappointing at HC so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Quote Stay on topic. This thread is about Baker Mayfield. When Josh Dobbs gets his shot in this league we can talk about what he is and isn't. I've stated multiple times I have not budged from my pre-draft assesment. Many players never get a chance because they are simply not good enough. That's likely the career arc for Dobbs. If this happens will you admit mistake or rail against a league wide conspiracy like that oddball poster who thought Matt Barkley was Tom Brady but just never got enough chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar12 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Elky said: I still think Baker is the Quarterback That Was Promised to Cleveland. Besides him going through a sophomore slump/young QB growing pains, the o-line has been a disaster and Kitchens has been disappointing at HC so far. I don’t know he’s on pace for like 20 picks. Blame the OL all you want but he needs to take better care of the football. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Elky said: They didn't win a single game under Tyrod Taylor and started winning when Baker started. They also played worse competition when Mayfield started. Tyrod Taylor played a 9-6-1 Steelers team in Week 1 and a 13-3 Saints team in Week 2. Baker got them their first win against the 4-12 NY Jets. And other than for a win against the Ravens when Flacco was the starter, Mayfield didn't have another win over a team that finished with a winning record the rest of the year. The Browns under Mayfield last year were simply the benefiaciary of a weak schedule down the stretch and they stacked wins against bad teams leading to all this off-season hype. Baker Mayfield currently has only 2 wins in his career over a team with a winning record (both being the Ravens). Typically when he plays good teams it looks more like what we saw last night against the 49ers than what happened against the Ravens last week. Edited October 8, 2019 by VanS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Many players never get a chance because they are simply not good enough. That's likely the career arc for Dobbs. If this happens will you admit mistake or rail against a league wide conspiracy like that oddball poster who thought Matt Barkley was Tom Brady but just never got enough chances. Sure. If he never gets his shot then yes I will say I was wrong. But he's only 24 years old. Just think of all the backup QBs that have played just this year. I'm sure he'll get his shot soon. And when he does he'll be everything I said he would be. Right now he's just had some bad luck. A week before Big Ben gets his first major injury he's traded to the Jaguars. Then he finds himself behind a 6th round rookie on a magic carpet ride of a season. Now Rudolph goes down for the Steelers and a 4th string camp arm is gonna start for the Steelers on Sunday Night Football. With crazy luck like that going against you this year, I got a feeling it'll even out and Dobbs will end up in some amazing situation next year and ball out. Just know this. I'm not just riding this out on a whim. I've honestly seen nothing to let me think he can't be a dominant Deshaun Watson-esque QB in the NFL. He's impressed me the last 2 years in the preseason. He looks as good as I thought he would be in the NFL. I'm just waiting for him to get his shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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