VanS Posted September 23, 2020 Author Share Posted September 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Jakuvious said: So, my 2 cents on this, is that if Vans had simply said that he thinks Josh Allen will become an elite QB, I would've remained silent. It's the fact that he said he already was one, when he clearly and universally was NOT, and then bumped the thread to retroactively prove his point. And it isn't Vans or Josh Allen specific. Someone saying Lamar Jackson was elite in 2018 would've been equally foolish. Or Peyton in 1998. I would've been objectively wrong to call Mahomes elite in 2017, regardless of what 2018 brought. There is such a critical and substantial difference between saying "X player will become elite," and saying "X player is elite," and that's the difference between this thread getting some minor discussion and getting disagreement, and getting a thread full of people who think Vans doesn't know what he's talking about, and then bragging about it later. You can call that semantics, but that's a hugely different argument. If he had said he believed he'd become elite, fine, give him his pat on the back. But since he said he already was, in the middle of a season where Allen was still struggling with inconsistent accuracy overall, poor deep ball touch, placement, and accuracy, and was on a team carried by a stronger defense than offense, he's still going to get ridiculed instead of getting congratulated. Also, for the record, minor putting the mod hat on here moment, bumping 9 month old threads to brag about how right or wrong you or someone else is has always generally not been a thing on this forum. So that alone was a bad look for the thread in the first place. I said Allen was elite last year because that's what I believed to be true. I'm not just saying it for attention. Its a honest held belief. And I have articulated my exact theory on why I believe it to be true. I even posited a hypothesis that would prove me right or wrong. My theory was simple. If Josh Allen is as great as I think he has already been then once the Bills give him some help on offense his box score metrics should start to match his talent level. Because its unrealistic to believe a player can go from mediocre to MVP in an off-season. Obviously the player must have been pretty good to start with and just needed the situation to change for the stats to finally match the talent that was always there. If you guys actually believed it was possible to go from mediocre to MVP in an off-season, there wouldn't be as much resistance to Allen being elite after 2 games or Lamar being elite at this time last year after 2 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted September 23, 2020 Author Share Posted September 23, 2020 5 hours ago, SmittyBacall said: I don’t understand how the Miami game of all games justifies this bump. There was nothing spectacular about that performance from what I saw; certainly nothing that would classify him as elite, (depending on how ridiculously loose your definition is). I just finished watching it on game pass. He still has the same warts in his game that he did last year. He missed a large handful of throws and his ball placement and accuracy continues to be inconsistent. Yes, he’s a physical marvel and can make the rare “wow” play. But there is no way the consistency or accuracy needs to be to justify this stance. There’s just no way you can reasonably say he’s on Russ’, Mahomes’, or even Lamar’s level (unless of course you are forcing an agenda and are dead set in preconceived draft notions). He’s on the tier of talented young QBs with still a ton to prove. Could he be elite? Possibly. Is he right now? Hell no. I'm sure you didn't feel this way about Lamar after 2 games last year....right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, VanS said: I said Allen was elite last year because that's what I believed to be true. I'm not just saying it for attention. Its a honest held belief. And I have articulated my exact theory on why I believe it to be true. I even posited a hypothesis that would prove me right or wrong. My theory was simple. If Josh Allen is as great as I think he has already been then once the Bills give him some help on offense his box score metrics should start to match his talent level. Because its unrealistic to believe a player can go from mediocre to MVP in an off-season. Obviously the player must have been pretty good to start with and just needed the situation to change for the stats to finally match the talent that was always there. If you guys actually believed it was possible to go from mediocre to MVP in an off-season, there wouldn't be as much resistance to Allen being elite after 2 games or Lamar being elite at this time last year after 2 games. Then why do you keep saying this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted September 23, 2020 Author Share Posted September 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Counselor said: Then why do you keep saying this? I don't understand your question? Keep saying what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, VanS said: I don't understand your question? Keep saying what? Oh my. Nevermind 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) 2 games is an incredible small sample size to start a season. After further digging since I was curious, look at some of the names that have dominated in the first two weeks to start a season if we want to go by that very specific metric: Phil Simms 1984: 7TD, 0INT, 594YDS Brian Sipe 1983: 7TD, 2INT, 457YDS Ryan Fitzpatrick 2011: 7TD, 1 INT, 472YDS Ryan Fitzpatrick 2018: 8TD, 1INT, 819YDS Drew Bledsoe 1997: 8TD, 1INT, 607YDS Dave Krieg 1985: 8TD, 0INT, 453YDS Lynn Dickey 1983: 8TD, 1INT, 623YDS Not exactly HOF guys, but guys that had good careers. Most of the guys in that circumstance are all/were HOF guys though. Still, it just goes to show that even if you restrict Allen to these very specific parameters, he hasn't done anything that is indicative of him "having arrived". Allen is tied with a bunch of other guys with similar numbers the first two weeks of the season. He's not doing anything groundbreaking: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=1970&year_max=2020&season_start=1&season_end=-1&pos[]=QB&is_starter=E&game_type=R&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&week_num_min=1&week_num_max=2&c5val=1.0&order_by=pass_td That being said, it's a good start. That much is true. Edited September 23, 2020 by TecmoSuperJoe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 99% of posters on here get a football for a prediction that might have come reality Van S gets a 30 page told-you-so thread 😎 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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