TNF: For Whom the Bell Bowls (balt v nyj)

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, SmittyBacall said:

Why do you even let it get to you? Let people have their stupid opinions.

You know he's good. I know he's good. The vast majority of informed people agree he's good. That should be enough.

Because I have an irrational desire to comment on things that are stupid lol

[M.10.E]

5 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Because I have an irrational desire to comment on things that are stupid lol

Call it eating the trash.

[VigilantZombie]

23 minutes ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

No it doesn't, to be completely honest. If you can't look at Lamar Jackson - who has 4,000 total yards, 40 TD's, and 7 turnovers on the year and is gonna win MVP - and say 'that player is good,' then I just don't know what to tell you. We don't need to wait a half decade just to weigh in. This isn't that difficult.  You can wait several years before saying someone is on a Hall of Fame path, or whatever analysis you want to do in terms of career legacy and such, fine. But this idea that excellence is just greeted with 'no actually do it again next year and the year after' is just absurd to me. 

Who the hell said anything about a half decade and I also said elements of Jacksons game are very good 

But, if you want me to pass judgement on him right now, he isnt on the level of Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, or Aaron Rodgers as a passer in their prime, he is far beneath that line. 

I also didnt say he has to duplicate these #s next year. I think I was pretty damn reasonable about him. But the Ravens havent had a genuinely good QB....well. .ever so I can understand why they're ready to crown him as a 1st ballot HOFer.

[VigilantZombie]

25 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

People after watching Baker for 3 games: "Wow this dude is REALLY good!"

People after watching Lamar for over 16 games: "Maybe we should just wait 3 more years here..."

 That's not what I said so maybe you should learn to read.

I don't actually think that Baker Mayfield is going to be a very good quarterback over the course of his career as I'm being completely honest it right now I do think Lamar Jackson he is going to develop even more and become the program fic passer that many people already think he is I'm just not willing to pass positive or negative judgment to that extent on him yet but if you're not impressed with what hes done so far I think you're an idiot.

 I hate the Baltimore ravens so it would be far too easy for me to Joe flacco this conversation but that's not what I'm attempting to do I think every point that I made is a fair point and as I stressed multiple times it is not my intent to suggest for 1 second that he isn't a good quarterback I'm simply saying that he has not faced a lot of pressure as a passer and I'm interested to see how he will do when he finally does because at some point he will see more pressure at some point the running lanes that he currently has will not always exist so when he finally starts facing adversity then we will see how high his ceiling truly is I am not saying that he isn't a good quarterback I never said that he is not a good quarterback I did say when he was drafted that I did not think that he would be the quarterback that he currently is and I was wrong about that which I have no problem admitting

 

[M.10.E]

4 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Who the hell said anything about a half decade and I also said elements of Jacksons game are very good 

But, if you want me to pass judgement on him right now, he isnt on the level of Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, or Aaron Rodgers as a passer in their prime, he is far beneath that line. 

I also didnt say he has to duplicate these #s next year. I think I was pretty damn reasonable about him. But the Ravens havent had a genuinely good QB....well. .ever so I can understand why they're ready to crown him as a 1st ballot HOFer.

ABSOLUTELY NO ONE IS SAYING THIS MY LORD.

I might get banned from NFL Gen if the Ravens win the Superbowl.

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by M.10.E

[VigilantZombie]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

So the narrative is going from "he can't pass" to now "He just makes easy throws all the time to wide open guys?"

Really? JFC people find something else to be horrible at evaluating, because if this is making "easy throws", you're insane.

 

 

 Also as far as this Twitter post goes here is what I've got to say about this and yes I did say that I think he has made a lot of easy throws and that I don't necessarily feel hes made a ton of difficult throws this season, we can agree to disagree on that, I'm fine with that. I'm not always right and I dont play the QB position 

 Having said that being able to scramble and  Avoid a pressure and basically scramble your wide receivers open is a skill it is a quarterback trait it is something that Ben Roethlisberger gets a lot of credit for.  It is something that Lamar Jackson should get a lot of credit for.

The fact that the more Jackson makes a ton of easy passes is not an attempt by me to criticize him is actually a compliment in that he makes smart decisions in his office of line does a great job protecting him in his wide receivers have his back. You don't accidentally score the most points in the NFL you don't accidentally run for 1500 yards.

 There is no doubt that as a player he is a good player the question is going to be can he be a great player and some would argue that he already is and I understand where those people are coming from but for me the difference between being really good and great is the difference of facing and not facing a lot of pressure and being able to make Gus throws under duress which is something he really hasn't had to do this season and that's not his fault but we will learn a lot more about him when he has to make those throws I believe that he is capable of doing it and I believe this season as a passer is going to be what allows him to do it because I do feel like he needs to grow and improve as a passer but having a season where he has been this good and has not had to rush his development is only going to help him when he gets yet another off season under his belt

[VigilantZombie]

6 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

ABSOLUTELY NO ONE IS SAYING THIS MY LORD.

I might get banned from NFL Gen if the Ravens win the Superbowl.

 

Except that Seagulls literally just did say that.  (Excluding the part about being an HOFer)

I actually think the Ravens WILL win the SB and they'll earn it if they do. But even if they do, it doesnt make Lamar a HOF player after his 2nd season.

I'm not faulting Ravens fans for absolutely buying into this guy 100%, you should! But I think its ridiculous that non-ravens get chastised for not being willing to crown him as the next Tom Brady

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

6 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

 That's not what I said so maybe you should learn to read.

I don't actually think that Baker Mayfield is going to be a very good quarterback over the course of his career as I'm being completely honest it right now I do think Lamar Jackson he is going to develop even more and become the program fic passer that many people already think he is I'm just not willing to pass positive or negative judgment to that extent on him yet but if you're not impressed with what hes done so far I think you're an idiot.

 I hate the Baltimore ravens so it would be far too easy for me to Joe flacco this conversation but that's not what I'm attempting to do I think every point that I made is a fair point and as I stressed multiple times it is not my intent to suggest for 1 second that he isn't a good quarterback I'm simply saying that he has not faced a lot of pressure as a passer and I'm interested to see how he will do when he finally does because at some point he will see more pressure at some point the running lanes that he currently has will not always exist so when he finally starts facing adversity then we will see how high his ceiling truly is I am not saying that he isn't a good quarterback I never said that he is not a good quarterback I did say when he was drafted that I did not think that he would be the quarterback that he currently is and I was wrong about that which I have no problem admitting

 

Okay first of all, TAKE A BREATH AND PUT IN A PERIOD FOR GOD SAKES.

Second of all, what even is the bolded? If you're trying to imply that you'd like to see how he does as a passer when the running lanes aren't there, I think he's shown more than enough to indicate that A) HE is a running lane just by himself, and B) He can drop back and throw just as well as most QB's. If you're saying you want to see how he does when his OL isn't blocking well or when teams blitz him, I think he has the #1 QBR against the blitz this year so that's just not gonna fly either.

If you're trying to say something else, I have no idea what it is cuz I ran out of breath trying to read that paragraph.

[lolsurebro]

I have to say after watching Lamar last night, I was pretty impressed. The OC/HC situation, and the OL and the way that these plays are designed are just nothing short of great.

It's been a good year to be a Ravens fan. Enjoy it while it lasts! Lord knows you deserve it after that lump Flacco did nothing since his SB win.

[VigilantZombie]

8 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Okay first of all, TAKE A BREATH AND PUT IN A PERIOD FOR GOD SAKES.

Second of all, what even is the bolded? If you're trying to imply that you'd like to see how he does as a passer when the running lanes aren't there, I think he's shown more than enough to indicate that A) HE is a running lane just by himself, and B) He can drop back and throw just as well as most QB's. If you're saying you want to see how he does when his OL isn't blocking well or when teams blitz him, I think he has the #1 QBR against the blitz this year so that's just not gonna fly either.

If you're trying to say something else, I have no idea what it is cuz I ran out of breath trying to read that paragraph.

I dont think the blitz has gotten home this very often this season. Teams blitzing and teams actually applying pressure can be 2 very different things.

What I'm saying is I want to see how he does when, yes, the OL isnt able to protect him as much and he has to throw consistently with people in his face. Doesnt seem like he has faced much of that.

Also the comment about him being a running lane. The dude isnt unstoppable so can we put that charade away? Defenses have done a poor job playing against Lamar and I think its heavily because until you play him, you cant have the right appreciation for his speed and his abilities. Most teams get to play him once, so they learn and it's too late.

I thin overall Lamar is very good player, but with room for improvement. I'm really just saying I'm not willing to make an opinion about where his ceiling his because atm, I have no idea.

Edited December 13, 2019 by wwhickok

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

I dont think the blitz has gotten home this very often this season. Teams blitzing and teams actually applying pressure can be 2 very different things.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps the reason why the blitz hasn't gotten home very much is because Lamar is very good at reading the blitz and getting the ball out quickly?

1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

What I'm saying is I want to see how he does when, yes, the OL isnt able to protect him as much and he has to throw consistently with people in his face.

So you want to see him have a bad game so you can draw conclusions and say "See, when he's being pressured 50% of the time and nobody's blocking for him he's not that good. Told y'all."

[VigilantZombie]

4 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Has it occurred to you that perhaps the reason why the blitz hasn't gotten home very much is because Lamar is very good at reading the blitz and getting the ball out quickly?

So you want to see him have a bad game so you can draw conclusions and say "See, when he's being pressured 50% of the time and nobody's blocking for him he's not that good. Told y'all."

Yes it has. I'm sorry I'm not willing drink the entire gallon of koolaid yet.

I addressed the bad game bit in a previous post.  Learn to read. That is all.

[N4L]

I'm very interested to see what happens when this option football team plays teams twice this season. 

The fact they have a 1st place schedule is gonna hurt them because new England and KC have experience against them. 

Lol at ravens fans bragging about beating the Jets at home on a Thursday. Your offense is unique and hard to prep for in one week. That's going to change as teams see you more and more. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

16 minutes ago, N4L said:

I'm very interested to see what happens when this option football team plays teams twice this season. 

The fact they have a 1st place schedule is gonna hurt them because new England and KC have experience against them. 

Lol at ravens fans bragging about beating the Jets at home on a Thursday. Your offense is unique and hard to prep for in one week. That's going to change as teams see you more and more. 

New England had us coming off a bye and we still ran a train over them. But sure.

[diamondbull424]

2 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Here is the honest truth about Lamar Jackson. He is the best 'RB' taken in the 2018 draft. What he is able to do as a running QB is a major catalyst to Baltimores success as a team and Harbaughs success as a coach.

He has shown the desire to keep improving.

As a passer, when his throwing attempts are limited, his pass % is excellent. He can make all of the easy NFL throws.

Defenses play too far inside next to the DL against Baltimore which, with his speed, allows Jackson to out run LBs to the side lines.

If they were to play further outside, forcing him to run closer to the edge of the DL, we may see a less successful run rate from him (no way to know for sure because it doesnt happen, DCs outside of Pittsburgh apparently arent smart enough).

We dont ACTUALLY know how good of a Passing QB he is because he hasnt faced a lot of pressure and hasnt had to make many, if any, difficult throws. That's a credit to the Baltimore OL though.

So with all this hype, understably so, it's still very possible that his career goes in either direction. Let us not forget, as great of a runner as Vick was, he didnt have much post season success. He wasn't ACTUALLY that good of a passing QB. He got by on arm strength against average DBs.

As a runner, Lamar is as good as it gets. As a passer, let's hold off on passing too positive or too negative of a judgement, the jury should still be out. He is deserving of the MVP, but Cam Newton won that award once too....and Cam Newton has always been overrated.

Well at least your “honest truth” take shouldn’t age as poorly as some of these takes from last season.

But let’s be real, Lamar Jackson was the most accurate 21 year old QB to ever play according to Warren Sharp analytics.

In his second season at QB, he’s locked up the MVP award and done it in such a convincing way that he was allowed to sit out roughly a game and a quarter due to blowout performances. Imagine the stat boost he has if he inflated his numbers in those games.

In terms of the on field product and these “easy passes” please. He’s one of the top QBs against the blitz, the Hurst pass where he’s drilled as he completed the perfect pass to where Hurst would be, the TD pass to Hollywood against the Rams where he’s drilled as he releases it. How about that pass to Boykin where he adjust the arm angle to fit it through 3-4 defenders. Watching it live, I could see the TD pass to Roberts developing, but that pass to Boykin I had no idea how he could see that open before it was open through all the clutter.

You don’t have as many redzone passing TDs without being a legit passing threat. Newton never developed his game as much as Lamar has shown and he never protected his body as much as Lamar has protected himself. Typically every QB takes at least one big hit a game, Lamar is no different. Generally that hit comes from him passing in the pocket, but sometimes it happens on a run. That aspect also played a role in Newton seeming “overrated” because when healthy he’s a beast. But when his shoulder or leg injuries are impacting his passing it’s a problem. Had he protected himself more, he’s still a top 5-10 QB from an “impact on the game” standpoint, but he wanted to be Superman. Lamar would rather be the Flash and avoid the major hits so as to avoid the Kryptonite that they cause.

But I will agree that typically three years In is when you know what you’ve got with a player. So waiting for further evidence makes sense. But defenses have had time to prepare and to this point every time someone has “figured” him out, they haven’t. If anything having terrible weather conditions has been the way to stop him. Rainstorms and 30mph wind gusts have done a better job to derail some of his opportunities (Andrews deep targets against the Bills where the ball shifts he catches in any normal condition game, making Jackson’s numbers look a lot less impactful than what they could’ve been) than some team using a scheme that “cracked the code”. That and even then it’s been an elite defense such as the Steelers, 49ers, Bills, and Patriots that have a lot of versatility to slow him down.