TNF: For Whom the Bell Bowls (balt v nyj)

[VigilantZombie]

11 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

New England had us coming off a bye and we still ran a train over them. But sure.

 See this is what people have a problem with you of all people are acting like the ravens oftens cannot possibly be stopped.

 

Yeah I get it is been the best offense in the league this season and they have been tough play for defenses against but we have seen this show before where and often doesn't really good for an entire season and then the following season teams wisen up to what they did and that oftens doesn't succeed as much.I'm not saying that it's definitely going to happen who knows whether or not it will happen. 

 But another factor to this is Greg Roman who is a major part of their success and let's not pretend like hes not let's not give the players all of the credit let's also credit Greg Roman for being a fantastic offensive coordinator.

 One which they might lose to a team looking for a new head coach I don't know if they will or not but it's I were Carolina or Cleveland or even Washington I would definitely be putting that man at the top of my list

Edited December 13, 2019 by wwhickok

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

 See this is what people have a problem with you of all people are acting like the ravens oftens cannot possibly be stopped.

There's a reason our offense is breaking historic records and on historic pace: It's historic. 

1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

Yeah I get it is been the best office in the league this season and they have been tossed to play defense against but we have seen this show before where and often doesn't really good for an entire season and then the following season teams wives and up to what they did and that oftens doesn't succeed as much.I'm not saying that it's definitely going to happen who knows whether or not it will happen. 

I can't read this paragraph because it's so poorly worded.

1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

 But another factor to this is Greg Roman who is a major part of their success and let's not pretend like hes not let's not give the players all of the credit let's also credit Greg Roman for being a fantastic offensive coordinator.

Is anyone here not giving Greg Roman credit?

1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

 One which they might lose to a team looking for a new head coach I don't know if they will or not but it's I were Carolina or Cleveland or even Washington I would definitely be putting that man at the top of my list

Yeah, most Ravens fans already know he's going to be looking at HC gigs next season and things might be different. That's the nature of the NFL.

[VigilantZombie]

1 minute ago, diamondbull424 said:

Well at least your “honest truth” take shouldn’t age as poorly as some of these takes from last season.

But let’s be real, Lamar Jackson was the most accurate 21 year old QB to ever play according to Warren Sharp analytics.

In his second season at QB, he’s locked up the MVP award and done it in such a convincing way that he was allowed to sit out roughly a game and a quarter due to blowout performances. Imagine the stat boost he has if he inflated his numbers in those games.

In terms of the on field product and these “easy passes” please. He’s one of the top QBs against the blitz, the Hurst pass where he’s drilled as he completed the perfect pass to where Hurst would be, the TD pass to Hollywood against the Rams where he’s drilled as he releases it. How about that pass to Boykin where he adjust the arm angle to fit it through 3-4 defenders. Watching it live, I could see the TD pass to Roberts developing, but that pass to Boykin I had no idea how he could see that open before it was open through all the clutter.

You don’t have as many redzone passing TDs without being a legit passing threat. Newton never developed his game as much as Lamar has shown and he never protected his body as much as Lamar has protected himself. Typically every QB takes at least one big hit a game, Lamar is no different. Generally that hit comes from him passing in the pocket, but sometimes it happens on a run. That aspect also played a role in Newton seeming “overrated” because when healthy he’s a beast. But when his shoulder or leg injuries are impacting his passing it’s a problem. Had he protected himself more, he’s still a top 5-10 QB from an “impact on the game” standpoint, but he wanted to be Superman. Lamar would rather be the Flash and avoid the major hits so as to avoid the Kryptonite that they cause.

But I will agree that typically three years In is when you know what you’ve got with a player. So waiting for further evidence makes sense. But defenses have had time to prepare and to this point every time someone has “figured” him out, they haven’t. If anything having terrible weather conditions has been the way to stop him. Rainstorms and 30mph wind gusts have done a better job to derail some of his opportunities (Andrews deep targets against the Bills where the ball shifts he catches in any normal condition game, making Jackson’s numbers look a lot less impactful than what they could’ve been) than some team using a scheme that “cracked the code”. That and even then it’s been an elite defense such as the Steelers, 49ers, Bills, and Patriots that have a lot of versatility to slow him down.

Warren Sapp is a hack. So there is that.

 As far as easy passes, alright, you're saying he has made some tough throws, I'll meet you half way and accept a Ravens fan who sees every pass throws as truth 

As far as defenses figuring him out. Its poor scheming, maybe its ego, idk. They've had plenty of time to prepare, I agree. They just havent gotten it done.

As far as the Ravens as a team, they proved themselves against some very good defenses this season.

IF Lamar didn't have 1500 yards rushing it's more of a debate on the MVP rather than a forgone conclusion, but the fact is, he does. 

[VigilantZombie]

2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

There's a reason our offense is breaking historic records and on historic pace: It's historic. 

Great word lingo there.

I can't read this paragraph because it's so poorly worded.

Bahahaha my bad I edited it.

Is anyone here not giving Greg Roman credit?

All I've heard about is Lamar Jackson. In fact I've rarely heard about any other member of that organization. It seems like ppl think if Lamar Jackson were the only Raven to take the field, they'd still be 12-2.

Yeah, most Ravens fans already know he's going to be looking at HC gigs next season and things might be different. That's the nature of the NFL.

 

 

[diamondbull424]

4 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Warren Sapp is a hack. So there is that.

 As far as easy passes, alright, you're saying he has made some tough throws, I'll meet you half way and accept a Ravens fan who sees every pass throws as truth 

As far as defenses figuring him out. Its poor scheming, maybe its ego, idk. They've had plenty of time to prepare, I agree. They just havent gotten it done.

As far as the Ravens as a team, they proved themselves against some very good defenses this season.

IF Lamar didn't have 1500 yards rushing it's more of a debate on the MVP rather than a forgone conclusion, but the fact is, he does. 

I don’t understand that last comment, that’s like saying, “If Pat Mahomes didn’t have 50 passing TDs he loses MVP to Drew Brees.”

I mean, I could retort your analysis by saying, if Lamar plays in the 4th quarter of all those games he sat out in and put up extra TDs and yards, the MVP conversation still wouldn’t be close as he’d be closer to 50 total TDs right now instead of at only 40.

[bmorecareful]

1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

Who the hell said anything about a half decade and I also said elements of Jacksons game are very good 

But, if you want me to pass judgement on him right now, he isnt on the level of Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, or Aaron Rodgers as a passer in their prime, he is far beneath that line. 

I also didnt say he has to duplicate these #s next year. I think I was pretty damn reasonable about him. But the Ravens havent had a genuinely good QB....well. .ever so I can understand why they're ready to crown him as a 1st ballot HOFer.

He might not be better than them as a passer in their prime but he isn’t in his prime yet himself... He is only 22 years old with 22 career starts... He is the youngest player to ever win the heisman... About to be the youngest player to ever win league MVP... and with last nights win he’s tied the NFL record for best win percentage by a starting QB to ever start a NFL career... with 111 more passing yards He becomes the first player in NFL history’ with a season of both 3000 passing and 1000 rushing all while missing over a games worth of playing time due to destroying multiple opponents to the point his services were no longer needed to finish the game lol...So while he may not have proven to be a better pure passer than the greatest pocket passers in NFL history in their prime... He has without a doubt proven to be the best QB in NFL History 22 years or younger...

Edited December 13, 2019 by bmorecareful

[VigilantZombie]

13 minutes ago, bmorecareful said:

He might not be better than them as a passer in their prime but he isn’t in his prime yet himself... He is only 22 years old with 22 career starts... He is the youngest player to ever win the heisman... About to be the youngest player to ever win league MVP... and with last nights win he’s tied the NFL record for best win percentage by a starting QB to ever start a NFL career... with 111 more passing yards He becomes the first player in NFL history’ with a season of both 3000 passing and 1000 rushing all while missing over a games worth of playing time due to destroying multiple opponents to the point his services were no longer needed to finish the game lol...So while he may not have proven to be a better pure passer than the greatest pocket passers in NFL history in their prime... He has without a doubt proven to be the best QB in NFL History 22 years or younger...

 That can also be stated as he has had the best single season of any quarterback in history because that's really what it is one season.

 

Nobody was talking about how good Lamar Jackson was last season because let's be honest outside of running the football he did not look very good. This season obviously is a has storico season for quarterbacks but also a great season for him.

As far as whether or not he is in his prime. For now, I agree. But is this is peak? Maybe not, I have no idea. But If it is, it could be the 'prime' of his career. 

I dont even count last year because he wasnt the starter, for me, this is his first relevant season, so give it another 2 full seasons and that should be enough to decide what he Truly is and Isnt as a NFL player moving forward.

[VigilantZombie]

21 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I don’t understand that last comment, that’s like saying, “If Pat Mahomes didn’t have 50 passing TDs he loses MVP to Drew Brees.”

I mean, I could retort your analysis by saying, if Lamar plays in the 4th quarter of all those games he sat out in and put up extra TDs and yards, the MVP conversation still wouldn’t be close as he’d be closer to 50 total TDs right now instead of at only 40.

 What I'm saying is in my opinion the rushing yards is what sets him so far apart.

He might still be the MVP without those yards what I'm saying is it's more of a relevant discussion for other people if he didn't but the fact is he does and it is the bigger element of what sets him so far apart in the MVP race.

 I'm not in any way trying to slight his achievement

Edited December 13, 2019 by wwhickok

[SDotNova]

15 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

Darnold is going to be really good when he irons out those forced throws.

I’m hoping he can get passed the boom and bust nature of his game. Hopefully once we put better players around him, he won’t be inclined to go for broke. Over the last few games, he’s cut back on the force errors. He’s thrown the hall away when nothing is there. He’s still developing though. His highs are high and his lows are low. With the right pieces around him, I still think he becomes a top 10 QB. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by SDotNova

[diamondbull424]

1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

 What I'm saying is in my opinion the rushing yards is what sets him so far apart.

He might still be the MVP without those yards what I'm saying is it's more of a relevant discussion for other people if he didn't but the fact is he does and it is the bigger element of what sets him so far apart in the MVP race.

 I'm not in any way trying to slight his achievement

Okay. But the rushing yards was actually why most weren’t looking to credit his MVP caliber year until Wilson “regressed to the mean” (or to the mean of normal elite anyway) even though Lamar led in all the conventional outlets that predict MVP such as team TDs/drive, scoring/drive metrics, offensive rankings, etc. Had Wilson continued to lead the league in throwing TDs, Lamar still potentially doesn’t win the award because his rushing contributions weren’t considered as valuable to the award case as passing contributions.

All this to say, I don’t agree with this point. If Mahomes had the same number of passing TDs as Lamar and never got hurt. Regardless of Lamar breaking Vick’s record, Mahomes would probably be the MVP front runner.

But hey, other than that I’m not against the concept you speak of waiting to crown Lamar until more information is gathered. Wait until he has an offseason without as much doubt and sees how he motivates himself without the doubters. Is he a cooler, a closer, or a cleaner? Is he truly relentless and if he responds in the way I think he might than we’ve potentially got a next level player.

[VigilantZombie]

4 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Okay. But the rushing yards was actually why most weren’t looking to credit his MVP caliber year until Wilson “regressed to the mean” (or to the mean of normal elite anyway) even though Lamar led in all the conventional outlets that predict MVP such as team TDs/drive, scoring/drive metrics, offensive rankings, etc. Had Wilson continued to lead the league in throwing TDs, Lamar still potentially doesn’t win the award because his rushing contributions weren’t considered as valuable to the award case as passing contributions.

All this to say, I don’t agree with this point. If Mahomes had the same number of passing TDs as Lamar and never got hurt. Regardless of Lamar breaking Vick’s record, Mahomes would probably be the MVP front runner.

But hey, other than that I’m not against the concept you speak of waiting to crown Lamar until more information is gathered. Wait until he has an offseason without as much doubt and sees how he motivates himself without the doubters. Is he a cooler, a closer, or a cleaner? Is he truly relentless and if he responds in the way I think he might than we’ve potentially got a next level player.

 I hear you and I disagree with you. Some my consider PM the front runner for the MVP I would not be one of them .

 I do agree that the more Jackson as the opportunity over the next couple of seasons to establish himself as a generational player

[berlin calling]

as a Steeler fan i'd surely hope LJ had maxed out this season and would never be able to come close to his historic season again.

 

[lolsurebro]

Lets just be honest, against mid-tier and below teams, Lamar looks unreal. 

Every year during the off-season, we see on paper what teams look to be the best (Chargers were alleged to be phenomenal this year as an example) and every year we see certain teams perform below expectations, and certain teams exceed them.

And every year it's the same things that make a team great; It's the perfect combination of players, coaches, etc, that make each team excel. This year, everything for the Ravens -- even down to the vibe of the team -- is aligning better than most other teams in the league. They look confident, dominant, and are playing at a level that is borderline disrespectful to the league.

With that said, we have seen them brought back down to earth a little bit by some of the other high performing teams. This year has been strange because it seems like 10% of the league is great, 70% is below average, and 20% is awful. There is such a gap between the teams this year IMO, it's made it a relatively unenjoyable season outside of a small handful of games between the top 10%. 

That is not to discredit the Ravens. It's been a weird year for football, but these guys are doing amazing things.

As a Pats fan, I also want to proclaim my hate for all of you Ravens fans.

That is all.

[M.10.E]

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

Well at least your “honest truth” take shouldn’t age as poorly as some of these takes from last season.

 

Oh.My.God. This is just a beautiful thread.

"Why are Ravens fans so defensive?"

Cause we have to deal with crap like this.

Edited December 13, 2019 by M.10.E

[FrantikRam]

22 minutes ago, lolsurebro said:

Lets just be honest, against mid-tier and below teams, Lamar looks unreal. 

Every year during the off-season, we see on paper what teams look to be the best (Chargers were alleged to be phenomenal this year as an example) and every year we see certain teams perform below expectations, and certain teams exceed them.

And every year it's the same things that make a team great; It's the perfect combination of players, coaches, etc, that make each team excel. This year, everything for the Ravens -- even down to the vibe of the team -- is aligning better than most other teams in the league. They look confident, dominant, and are playing at a level that is borderline disrespectful to the league.

With that said, we have seen them brought back down to earth a little bit by some of the other high performing teams. This year has been strange because it seems like 10% of the league is great, 70% is below average, and 20% is awful. There is such a gap between the teams this year IMO, it's made it a relatively unenjoyable season outside of a small handful of games between the top 10%. 

That is not to discredit the Ravens. It's been a weird year for football, but these guys are doing amazing things.

As a Pats fan, I also want to proclaim my hate for all of you Ravens fans.

That is all.

 

The Ravens have beaten the following teams with winning records:

Patriots

Niners

Seahawks

Bills

Rams

Texans

Steelers

 

And then the Bengals twice, Dolphins, Jets and Cardinals

 

They've clinched at least having half of their wins against teams with winning records. Seahawks, Bills, Rams and Steelers were road games. Rams and Texans were completely destroyed. Patriots and Seahawks were beaten by double digits.

There is no way to discredit them. There have obviously been teams more dominant, and I'm assuming that the "historic" nature that people are referring to is simply their running game and time of possession - because they are no where near historic in terms of scoring or even point differential. They need 56 points over their last two games just to score more than the Rams did last year, and 94 more to score more than the Chiefs did last year.

Which is crazy to think about - for as good as the Ravens are on offense, they're not the Chiefs from last year. And the lessons they can take away from both the Rams and Chiefs from last year, and Eagles the year before is that when you are that "it" team, you better win the Super Bowl - because the following seasons usually aren't very kind to you. Someone will figure out a way to stop this offense at some point, and they'll need to be able to adjust.