***Spoilers*** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

[thrILL!]

3 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

As someone said earlier, the Knights of Ren are a throwaway group.  I would've much rather they have been Snoke's throne room guards, they would've had a better death that way.  At this point they are shameless characters for selling action figures.  

I still can't believe Wedge Antilles wasn't flying an X-Wing, and my friend even brought that up before me.  He's the only pilot in canon or EU to fly and survive both Death Star attacks, and he's relegated to gunner duty on the Falcon.  Why?   And on top of that, the pilot who dies right before the fleet jumps in is his step-son.  Why not have Wedge come out of hyperspace and save him?  

I can't believe that Abrams spent time writing the Zori Bliss character, for her only real purpose is to say "Poe isn't gay."  Now, I'm one of those that feels strongly about the characters who came before.  Don't mess with them.  I'm not a fan of how Rian Johnson interpreted Luke for The Last Jedi, and Lando is not pansexual like they made him out to be in Solo.  Don't change the backgrounds of our old characters.  But for the ones Disney created?  Go to town, do whatever you like.  If they wanted to make Poe and Finn a couple, it really doesn't bother me, but what bothers me is creating a throwaway character just to say "Poe isn't gay" when this movie already has so much stuff to tie up.  

And I'm still bummed we don't know anything more about Maz Kanata, her connection to the Force, or how she got ahold of Anakin's lightsaber.  I also don't like that it was Leia's lightsaber that went to Exegol and not Luke's green one.  Though I guess we can't tie up everything, and I am hopeful for them to do some sort of exploration in a show or novel.  

I was under the impression that the Knights of Ren were supposed to be the other students that sided with Kylo Ren after the confrontation between him and Luke.  That they killed the other students who were loyal to Luke.  But none of these Knights did anything force-related at all.  So maybe i inferred all of that myself and that’s not actually who they are. Ben wiped the floor with them so they couldn’t have been all that but it was a missed opportunity.  
 

I was hoping to see Wedge earlier and I was somewhat disappointed at his cameo too.  Maybe the actor wanted a small role.  I don’t know if he continued acting and I haven't heard either way but at least we saw him.  The EU is basically Star Wars Elseworlds to me but I’ve heard he gets shown love there with Rogue Squadron.  If SW proper wants to add characters, events etc from the EU, cartoons, that's cool to me if it’s done well.  I read Dark Force Rising or whatever it was called.  I liked Thrawn a lot but didn’t care for the book enough to continue the series.  The dialogue didn’t feel like Star Wars characters to me esp Luke.  Except for Dark Empire, no comic has felt authentic to me.  I suppose for some, that’s what these new movies feel like esp if they take the EU, comics very seriously.  But at least the trilogy is legit canon.  I just don’t mess with the comics or EU and don’t go out of my way to bash them. To each his own.  
 

The alleged romance between Poe and Finn was nonsensical posturing in the first place.  There was never a foundation for it.  Any romance for Finn always leaned toward Rey with Rose thrown into the mix.  I’ve seen ppl say they believe Finn was going to tell Rey he was force-sensitive when they were in the quicksand. I’m not sure how that’s a conversation that could be had like that and wonder how that’s even important if he’s about to die.  It sure felt like it was more of a “I love you” moment and Poe cockblocking in the tunnel below reinforced that imo. Zori Bliss was super cool and intriguing to me.  I’d love to see a series based on her.  I was hoping to see more of her but at least she showed up to help.  It would’ve been nice to see them ride off into the sunset together.  
 

Lando wasn’t banging his droid in Solo.  That was always a ridiculous suggestion made by ppl trying way too hard to carve out an agenda about sexuality.  I completely agree about retconning characters to fit agendas.  Iceman in the X-Men comic is the poster child for such silliness.  You want to introduce a new character that’s has different proclivities, just create one.  I also don’t believe that Zorii Bliss was created to reinforce Poe’s sexuality   A love interest is a love interest and she was hardly that.  It just showed us they have some kind of history.

I also was disappointed in the lack of Maz.  I wanted to hear that story about the lightsaber too.  I’d imagine had JJ directed all 3, she would’ve had a much bigger role.  I also wish Lawrence Kasdan had been given a once over with this script too.  Ppl knock Solo (I think it’s fantastic), but his script for that and his co-writing on TFA made both movies sound and feel like 4-6.  

Edited December 28, 2019 by thrILL!
This is the way

[sunnygsm]

My biggest frustration with this trilogy is the wasted potential. They had some great pieces but it wasn't coherent and didn't collectively come together for me. I wish they relied less on nostalgia and had the conviction to do something truly new. While I didn't like how parts of TLJ were done, I could live with the overall direction. I would have enjoyed it more in the second half of they pushed it more. Trying to undo things in ROS was lame and a waste. It's a shame because the pieces were there. 

[THE DUKE]

All in all I liked RoS.  Yes, you can pick at the plot holes if you want, although most of them have loose ways of getting around them.  In the end I chose to just enjoy it for the spectacle it was.

Definitely should have killed Rey and left Ben alive though.  Despite what they say, there will be a continuation from this at some point, and going forward with Driver instead of Ridley would have bee far more interesting. 

The biggest problem was them not having a plan.  Next trilogy, get 1 director and have 1 over arching story to tell through the 3 movies.  This is the way good storytelling happens.   Making it up as you go along is going to cause too many problems with a universe with as much backstory as Star Wars. 

Side note, I can totally see a Disney+ show centered around Oscar Isaac and Keri Russell being born from this movie.

[MOSteelers56]

11 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

All in all I liked RoS.  Yes, you can pick at the plot holes if you want, although most of them have loose ways of getting around them.  In the end I chose to just enjoy it for the spectacle it was.

Definitely should have killed Rey and left Ben alive though.  Despite what they say, there will be a continuation from this at some point, and going forward with Driver instead of Ridley would have bee far more interesting. 

The biggest problem was them not having a plan.  Next trilogy, get 1 director and have 1 over arching story to tell through the 3 movies.  This is the way good storytelling happens.   Making it up as you go along is going to cause too many problems with a universe with as much backstory as Star Wars. 

Side note, I can totally see a Disney+ show centered around Oscar Isaac and Keri Russell being born from this movie.

I agree with all this.

[naptownskinsfan]

13 hours ago, thrILL! said:

I was under the impression that the Knights of Ren were supposed to be the other students that sided with Kylo Ren after the confrontation between him and Luke.  That they killed the other students who were loyal to Luke.  But none of these Knights did anything force-related at all.  So maybe i inferred all of that myself and that’s not actually who they are. Ben wiped the floor with them so they couldn’t have been all that but it was a missed opportunity.  
 

I was hoping to see Wedge earlier and I was somewhat disappointed at his cameo too.  Maybe the actor wanted a small role.  I don’t know if he continued acting and I haven't heard either way but at least we saw him.  The EU is basically Star Wars Elseworlds to me but I’ve heard he gets shown love there with Rogue Squadron.  If SW proper wants to add characters, events etc from the EU, cartoons, that's cool to me if it’s done well.  I read Dark Force Rising or whatever it was called.  I liked Thrawn a lot but didn’t care for the book enough to continue the series.  The dialogue didn’t feel like Star Wars characters to me esp Luke.  Except for Dark Empire, no comic has felt authentic to me.  I suppose for some, that’s what these new movies feel like esp if they take the EU, comics very seriously.  But at least the trilogy is legit canon.  I just don’t mess with the comics or EU and don’t go out of my way to bash them. To each his own.  
 

The alleged romance between Poe and Finn was nonsensical posturing in the first place.  There was never a foundation for it.  Any romance for Finn always leaned toward Rey with Rose thrown into the mix.  I’ve seen ppl say they believe Finn was going to tell Rey he was force-sensitive when they were in the quicksand. I’m not sure how that’s a conversation that could be had like that and wonder how that’s even important if he’s about to die.  It sure felt like it was more of a “I love you” moment and Poe cockblocking in the tunnel below reinforced that imo. Zori Bliss was super cool and intriguing to me.  I’d love to see a series based on her.  I was hoping to see more of her but at least she showed up to help.  It would’ve been nice to see them ride off into the sunset together.  
 

Lando wasn’t banging his droid in Solo.  That was always a ridiculous suggestion made by ppl trying way too hard to carve out an agenda about sexuality.  I completely agree about retconning characters to fit agendas.  Iceman in the X-Men comic is the poster child for such silliness.  You want to introduce a new character that’s has different proclivities, just create one.  I also don’t believe that Zorii Bliss was created to reinforce Poe’s sexuality   A love interest is a love interest and she was hardly that.  It just showed us they have some kind of history.

I also was disappointed in the lack of Maz.  I wanted to hear that story about the lightsaber too.  I’d imagine had JJ directed all 3, she would’ve had a much bigger role.  I also wish Lawrence Kasdan had been given a once over with this script too.  Ppl knock Solo (I think it’s fantastic), but his script for that and his co-writing on TFA made both movies sound and feel like 4-6.  

I thought the same about the Knights of Ren, but apparently some source material is saying they are a Dark Side group that formed after Return of the Jedi, and that Kylo Ren eventually becomes the leader of the group.  Apparently, most of the Jedi trainees are killed in a Force Storm (probably due to Frank acting as Snoke) and only three survive, who give chase to Ben.  So they should've been more powerful than the theory of ex-Jedi trainees.  

Sure, you can say that about the Poe and Finn relationship, but Oscar Isaacs himself has said it's something considered and that he considers it a huge missed opportunity that they didn't go with it.  JJ Abrams has confirmed that Finn is Force sensitive I believe, but the initial interpretation of that scene was supposed to be left up to the audience to consider and draw their own conclusions.  Since a lot of people made the jump to a relationship, I guess that is why Abrams cleared the air on it.  The hints that Finn is Force sensitive are in all three movies though. 

Jonathan Kasden, who was one of the writers for Solo, and Donald Glover both confirmed that Lando is pansexual, so that's not a ridiculous suggestion that a fan group made.  

I agree that Lawrence Kasdan should've been given a once-over on the script.  I did enjoy Solo more than most, but it's also pretty clear what was done by the original directors, versus what was re-done by Ron Howard.  

[naptownskinsfan]

12 hours ago, sunnygsm said:

My biggest frustration with this trilogy is the wasted potential. They had some great pieces but it wasn't coherent and didn't collectively come together for me. I wish they relied less on nostalgia and had the conviction to do something truly new. While I didn't like how parts of TLJ were done, I could live with the overall direction. I would have enjoyed it more in the second half of they pushed it more. Trying to undo things in ROS was lame and a waste. It's a shame because the pieces were there. 

And as most of us have said, you have to blame Kathleen Kennedy for not having an overarching plan for this.  It's storytelling 101.  None of what happened with The Last Jedi and the undoing of most of that movie with Rise of Skywalker would've happened if they mapped out a story from the beginning, and a sole director given control over all three.  

[naptownskinsfan]

The visual guide is not a novel, but otherwise this is a pretty good, concise video about the relationship between Frank and Snoke. 

 

[naptownskinsfan]

15 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

All in all I liked RoS.  Yes, you can pick at the plot holes if you want, although most of them have loose ways of getting around them.  In the end I chose to just enjoy it for the spectacle it was.

Definitely should have killed Rey and left Ben alive though.  Despite what they say, there will be a continuation from this at some point, and going forward with Driver instead of Ridley would have bee far more interesting. 

The biggest problem was them not having a plan.  Next trilogy, get 1 director and have 1 over arching story to tell through the 3 movies.  This is the way good storytelling happens.   Making it up as you go along is going to cause too many problems with a universe with as much backstory as Star Wars. 

Side note, I can totally see a Disney+ show centered around Oscar Isaac and Keri Russell being born from this movie.

That's very fair.  I'd love to keep Poe Dameron around in some capacity.  

[TheChancellor]

On 28/12/2019 at 6:43 AM, THE DUKE said:

All in all I liked RoS.  Yes, you can pick at the plot holes if you want, although most of them have loose ways of getting around them.  In the end I chose to just enjoy it for the spectacle it was.

Definitely should have killed Rey and left Ben alive though.  Despite what they say, there will be a continuation from this at some point, and going forward with Driver instead of Ridley would have bee far more interesting. 

The biggest problem was them not having a plan.  Next trilogy, get 1 director and have 1 over arching story to tell through the 3 movies.  This is the way good storytelling happens.   Making it up as you go along is going to cause too many problems with a universe with as much backstory as Star Wars. 

Side note, I can totally see a Disney+ show centered around Oscar Isaac and Keri Russell being born from this movie.

I'm mostly under the impression that the guy is done with Star Wars, but then again it's difficult to turn down all that sweet Disney money. 

[MKnight82]

Movie was garbage.  What a terrible trilogy.

[MKnight82]

Rey should have joined Kylo in TLJ, then she should have become the big bad in ROS, with Ben Solo flipping to the light to stop her.  Would have made a better story imo.

[fretgod99]

I thought it was a really fun movie. Not perfect, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Death Star tech is overused, but whatever.

The last scene between with Rey and Ben played out great, except for the kiss. Cut that out and it’s perfect for me.

It was a great way to wrap up the saga. I’m a huge Star Wars fan, and this is the type of ending I wanted to see.

[fretgod99]

And now I await the inevitable “If YoU lIkEd ThIs MoViE, yOu ArEn’T a ReAl StAr WaRs FaN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” responses, which, by the way, is what I think the point of that actors comment was. It’s not that you can’t be a real fan and express dissent or dislike some aspect of the material. It’s the No True Scotsmen nonsense that proliferates this thread. “If you were a real fan...”. Please, just stop.

[naptownskinsfan]

2 hours ago, fretgod99 said:

I thought it was a really fun movie. Not perfect, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Death Star tech is overused, but whatever.

The last scene between with Rey and Ben played out great, except for the kiss. Cut that out and it’s perfect for me.

It was a great way to wrap up the saga. I’m a huge Star Wars fan, and this is the type of ending I wanted to see.

Considering Frank's return and how the EU Dark Empire has tons of superweapons (the Eclipse Star Destroyer has a similar superlaser, and the galaxy gun can destroy planets) all of the Death Star tech makes sense.  He's got an obsession with superweapons as a symbol.  

I agree on the kiss.  That was cringeworthy to the max.  

[naptownskinsfan]

2 hours ago, fretgod99 said:

And now I await the inevitable “If YoU lIkEd ThIs MoViE, yOu ArEn’T a ReAl StAr WaRs FaN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” responses, which, by the way, is what I think the point of that actors comment was. It’s not that you can’t be a real fan and express dissent or dislike some aspect of the material. It’s the No True Scotsmen nonsense that proliferates this thread. “If you were a real fan...”. Please, just stop.

Fun movie but not perfect is a good way to describe this.  No one should be saying that to this opinion unless they truly have an agenda with an ax to grind about things.  It's actually my opinion for the most part, especially considering how much they had to clear up and go through in the first part of the movie.