Josh Rosen. How much of his horrific play would you blame the cast around him & how much on him?

[Thelonebillsfan]

I mean it's not like Kyler is putting up video game numbers with the exact same team. He's had like 5 games with a sub 5 YPA and they added a dynamic RB to the roster to supplement him mid-season. He's been fine for a rookie on a team that has more talent this year than they did last year which, a doy, they signed guys and had another full draft class of guys to add to them. Murray's legs give him a buffer against the terrible OL that Rosen had.

The reality is he got the hell beaten out of him at UCLA and probably has just had those bad habits solidified by being thrown in too early and then asked to carry two really bad teams. He's gotta just sit and watch film for a couple years but there's still a chance for him, the talent is there. But the football has probably just been knocked out of him. Happens to a lot of guys. QB's need to go to the right system with the right coaching and the right talent around them. Rosen has gotten none of that.

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Thelonebillsfan

[RamblinMan99]

31 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

Because Sam Darnold is clearly lofting 3TDs a game to a prime a Calvin Johnson.

 

Jets and Browns have the same record. Darnold has better stats than Mayfield. Darnold has a worse offensive cast than Mayfield. So if you aren't taking exception to Mayfield, you can't take exception to Darnold.

No, you can't compare Mayfield's situation to Darnold's.  

Baker Mayfield has the talent (which he proved last year)  but is in a rare situation in pro football when the head coach is so immature, that the rest of the team becomes distracted and guys like OBJ become under utilized.  

Darnold's case is really all about Darnold.  Sure, you could make the case that Adam Gase is not allowing him to throw to LeVeon Bell enough (which that's not the reason for Darnold's mediocre play).  

This guy had a QBR of 3.6 against New England, and it was a home game.  Has there ever been a QBR lower?  Yeah maybe Andy Dalton in 2017. 

But, that just goes to show how bad Sam Darnold is capable of being.  It's not that he's reached that level of consistency yet, but that's a clear sign of what he's capable of.  

[Forge]

[Thelonebillsfan]

The level of discourse in GEN has always been pretty bad.

But over the last year I can't remember it ever being worse.

r/NFL is better, that's just sad.

[RamblinMan99]

29 minutes ago, Thelonebillsfan said:

QB's need to go to the right system with the right coaching and the right talent around them. Rosen has gotten none of that.

 

Honestly don't think that would help Rosen's situation at all.  

[Soko]

1 hour ago, RamblinMan99 said:

Actually, history does tell that it works exactly like that.  

Take Ben Roethlisbeger for example.  Pittsburgh was 6-10 in 2003, the year right before they drafted Ben in the first round.  The  year after, they went 15-1 and went all the way to the AFC title game.  They haven't had a losing season since.  

You mention Russell Wilson earlier.  Same kind of example, yet he wasn't even a first round draft pick.  Seattle was 7-9 in 2011 right before they drafted him in the third round.  They were 11-5 the next year and went to the divisional playoff round.  Haven't had a losing season since. 

There are many other examples.  

So yes, a team can look seemingly terrible from the outside, when all they really need is a QB.  

They can have all the tangibles on both sides of the football, and all of the intangibles other than talent and awareness at the QB position.  

And most of the time, the QB either has it right out of the gate or he doesn't.  

Murray doesn't have it long term.  

Comparing those rosters to this Cardinals roster...and even rosters aside - the coaches. Not even remotely comparable. 

And there are plenty of examples that work the other way. Peyton Manning 3-13. Eli Manning 1-6. Joe Montana 2-6. Drew Brees 8-8. It goes in both directions. Not all guys enter as complete products or ideal situations. Putting a rookie W/L record as a career indictment, especially one playing with a terrible roster, is dumb.

[Trentwannabe]

I was physically upset when the Bills drafted Josh Allen over Josh Rosen and the theme of that night from the football world was the Bills took the wrong Josh.

Still a lot of time in either career for things to change but Rosen looks more likely to be out of the league by next season than anything else. 

[Thelonebillsfan]

1 minute ago, Trentwannabe said:

I was physically upset when the Bills drafted Josh Allen over Josh Rosen and the theme of that night from the football world was the Bills took the wrong Josh.

Still a lot of time in either career for things to change but Rosen looks more likely to be out of the league by next season than anything else. 

Tbh I think Rosen would be a hell of a lot better than he is now with a stable staff around him like in Buffalo rather than the tire fire in Arizona when he got picked.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Thelonebillsfan

[Trentwannabe]

18 minutes ago, Thelonebillsfan said:

Tbh I think Rosen would be a hell of a lot better than he is now with a stable staff around him like in Buffalo rather than the tire fire in Arizona when he got picked.

Maybe. But he showed diddly squat this season and just looks so disinterested. One of the fears about him leading up to the draft.

[VigilantZombie]

Rosen is terrible. Cards are terrible, Murray isnt.

Miami is terrible. Fitzpatrick isnt completely.

[49erurtaza]

I can see Rosen going to a good situation and breaking out, he's had horrible situation for a young player. Fitz knows how to succeed in terrible situations.

[NYJets4716]

10 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

No, you can't compare Mayfield's situation to Darnold's.  

Baker Mayfield has the talent (which he proved last year)  but is in a rare situation in pro football when the head coach is so immature, that the rest of the team becomes distracted and guys like OBJ become under utilized.  

Darnold's case is really all about Darnold.  Sure, you could make the case that Adam Gase is not allowing him to throw to LeVeon Bell enough (which that's not the reason for Darnold's mediocre play).  

This guy had a QBR of 3.6 against New England, and it was a home game.  Has there ever been a QBR lower?  Yeah maybe Andy Dalton in 2017. 

But, that just goes to show how bad Sam Darnold is capable of being.  It's not that he's reached that level of consistency yet, but that's a clear sign of what he's capable of.  

lol so the player on a far worse team and far worse situation, is really all about himself but the player with elite WRs and elite RBs is about others? LMAO. Yes Darnold struggled vs the Patriots, if not for that game his QBR would be near 96, it was a bad game where he was put in a situation to lose. But he bounced back from that and has played better despite having a terrible OL and no supporting cast along with a terrible HC. Adam Gase is probably the worst HC in football, hes doing exactly what he did in Miami with the Jets.  Not to mention one QB being 3 years younger.  I've seen bad QBs with the Jets. Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith and others. Darnold is far from them, he is on a bad team with bad coaches. But often has lifted players and won games because of his individual talents.  LeVeon Bell has been non existent all season, the OL can't block at all. We are down to our 9th or 10th OL grouping tomorrow due to our 2 backup guards going down injured, now to literally guys picked off the street to now starting in a NFL game. 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by NYJets4716

[RamblinMan99]

6 hours ago, NYJets4716 said:

lol so the player on a far worse team and far worse situation, is really all about himself but the player with elite WRs and elite RBs is about others? LMAO. Yes Darnold struggled vs the Patriots, if not for that game his QBR would be near 96, it was a bad game where he was put in a situation to lose. But he bounced back from that and has played better despite having a terrible OL and no supporting cast along with a terrible HC. Adam Gase is probably the worst HC in football, hes doing exactly what he did in Miami with the Jets.  Not to mention one QB being 3 years younger.  I've seen bad QBs with the Jets. Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith and others. Darnold is far from them, he is on a bad team with bad coaches. But often has lifted players and won games because of his individual talents.  LeVeon Bell has been non existent all season, the OL can't block at all. We are down to our 9th or 10th OL grouping tomorrow due to our 2 backup guards going down injured, now to literally guys picked off the street to now starting in a NFL game. 

 

Not going to say that Darnold is going to play at that kind of level for the next 5+ years, but I don't think he's the game changer for New York either.  

You can make the excuses for him all you want.  If he was put in such a horrid position against New England, then why can a guy like Patrick Mahomes can go up to Foxboro and beat them on their own turf?  

I will give you some credit in the sense that Josh Allen for Buffalo had a similar game to Darnold's against New England (yet, he doesn't even have the weapons Darnold has). 

But, I do see Darnold  being another Matt Stafford.  A guy who is good enough to maintain his depth chart place as starting QB, but won't ever get his team to the playoffs.  

I could be wrong.