Forge Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, The LBC said: I never said it would be people here. Touche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, The LBC said: Hey, someone who understands context! We are a rare breed in this world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamblinMan99 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said: No, but I think pass rushers in general are. What a completely baseless statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, RamblinMan99 said: What a completely baseless statement. Not at all. Let me elaborate. For as important as pass rushers are - maybe the 2nd or 3rd most valuable position behind QB and maybe CB - fans and the league in general tend to overvalue them still. All you have to do is look across the league for examples. Most notably, Khalil Mack. For as amazing as he is, his play still isn't impactful enough to save Chicago and lead them to the playoffs. Yet, the haul he was traded for was about as big as you'll see in today's NFL. Even in draft circles this year, there was a large contingent of fans and media types saying the Bengals should pass on Burrow (or QB) and take Chase Young because he's the best player available and he could "transform the defense". And while the latter might be true, the value on a lone pass rusher is too high in comparison to taking a much more valuable position in QB. Chase Young, for as unbelievably talented as he is, would marginally make our team better. Burrow hitting is the difference between making the playoffs or not. Young hitting barely moves the needle at all. So in general, I think pass rushers are overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 I'll say this, getting Josh Jacobs and another rookie in the mid first this season will help us more having Mack and signing him to a massive deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, RaidersAreOne said: I'll say this, getting Josh Jacobs and another rookie in the mid first this season will help us more having Mack and signing him to a massive deal. In a rebuild? I have no problem going along with that, though as good as Jacobs is, I'm not at all a fan of using premium capital on the position (though I'm a fan of a team coached by shanny, so that rb bias is in full effect) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, Forge said: In a rebuild? I have no problem going along with that, though as good as Jacobs is, I'm not at all a fan of using premium capital on the position (though I'm a fan of a team coached by shanny, so that rb bias is in full effect) Our Offense is built around Jacobs. He is THE most important player on our team already. If not for him, we honestly get ~4 wins. Not to mention the money we saved from avoiding paying Mack. We wouldn't have signed Trent Brown if we kept Mack and Brown was simply phenomenal for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamblinMan99 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Not at all. Let me elaborate. For as important as pass rushers are - maybe the 2nd or 3rd most valuable position behind QB and maybe CB - fans and the league in general tend to overvalue them still. All you have to do is look across the league for examples. Most notably, Khalil Mack. For as amazing as he is, his play still isn't impactful enough to save Chicago and lead them to the playoffs. Yet, the haul he was traded for was about as big as you'll see in today's NFL. Even in draft circles this year, there was a large contingent of fans and media types saying the Bengals should pass on Burrow (or QB) and take Chase Young because he's the best player available and he could "transform the defense". And while the latter might be true, the value on a lone pass rusher is too high in comparison to taking a much more valuable position in QB. Chase Young, for as unbelievably talented as he is, would marginally make our team better. Burrow hitting is the difference between making the playoffs or not. Young hitting barely moves the needle at all. So in general, I think pass rushers are overrated. What you saying really depends on a lot of different factors. Contrary to how Joe Burrow played yesterday, he could very well be a bust. We just don't know for sure. They're already comparing his semi-final performance to Matt Leinart and Johnny Manziel, and we know what happened to those guys. In addition, it depends on the team and what they need. In the case of Cincinnati, getting a QB would be better for them since Andy Dalton's just about washed up (which is a shame, because I thought he was going to be a great QB). But, taking a QB in the first round is always a gamble anyway. For a team like Chicago, it's not nearly as necessary. Mitch Tribusky isn't terrible. He's not great, but not terrible at this point. If you have enough weapons on the defensive side of the ball, a team can do well in the regular season and go far in the postseason as long as their QB doesn't turn the ball over. That's the case for Chicago. So, I don't think it's a case of pass rushers being overrated. I think that pass rushers aren't equally desired from every team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, RamblinMan99 said: Contrary to how Joe Burrow played yesterday, he could very well be a bust. We just don't know for sure. And the same can be said about Chase Young. That's not my point. 25 minutes ago, RamblinMan99 said: They're already comparing his semi-final performance to Matt Leinart and Johnny Manziel, and we know what happened to those guys. I don't really care what the talking heads have to say about Burrow. Most of them have no idea what they're talking about. McShay released his first 2020 mock the other day and said Burrow's most appropriate common comparison was Andy Dalton; which, if you have any semblance of evaluating integrity, know that's a terrible comparison. I suggest you either evaluate him yourself or find someone who knows what they're talking about. 45 minutes ago, RamblinMan99 said: So, I don't think it's a case of pass rushers being overrated. Don't get me wrong, pass rushers are important. I just think the cost to acquire and pay them is a bit over the top for what you get in return. It's excusable to pay a premium price for teams that are 1 or 2 players away. But for the average team like Cincinnati? Eh. I don't think they translate into as many wins as people think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totty Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) Yes, and I officially offer the Bears a 3rd. Willing to negotiate. Edited December 30, 2019 by Totty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriotsheatyan Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 He’s good enough for his contract but not for his contract and the draft picks given up for him combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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