Ragnarok Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Got it. I thought you meant that Kyler had the edge since he was younger...so I was not quite understanding that. Nope nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 I mean, I can't really take the "Kyler is a better passer than Lamar" statement seriously on the simple basis that Lamar has struggled against defenses on Super Bowl favorites like the Chiefs and Steelers, and Murray lost to the Panthers and Lions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcb1213 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Blue said: Kyler Murray and the Arizona offense watched what Josh Allen and the Bills did to this Seattle defense two weeks ago and then completed two passes over twenty yards. His Hail Mary to Hopkins last week was his only pass completion over 15 yards that entire game. He is 19th in YPA, with one game this season under 4.5 YPA. An excellent arm doesn't matter much if you don't use it to push the ball downfield, and you don't really get to claim the supporting cast is too bad to do that with Larry Fitzgerald, Christian Kirk, and DeAndre Hopkins around. If I were saying Flacco was still a better QB than Murray, you would have a point here. But I'm not, so you don't. Goff is 39-17 since the Rams got rid of Jeff Fisher, with two playoff appearances (likely to be three this year), a Super Bowl appearance, and a road playoff win* in New Orleans. As it stands, there's a chance Goff is the top former No. 1 pick QB in the league right now, depending on what you think of poor Matt Stafford. But no, I guess one down year for him last season when the offense was a dumpster fire around him makes all of that irrelevant. Murray probably has another year to prove he's the guy before Arizona needs to seriously consider replacing him. I don't think he's shown enough so far to consider him The Guy long-term, but as I said, I don't think he's bad either. Flacco had 11 TDs, 1 total turnover (a fumble), and a QB rating low of 106.2 in those four games while throwing to middle-aged Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, and Dennis Pitta. He wasn't exactly playing against Swiss-cheese defenses either. There is no way that isn't one of the top five postseason performances by a quarterback ever. Joe Montana, 1989: 146.4 Passer Rating, 11 TD/0 INT. ( Phil Simms, 1986: 131.8 Passer Rating, 8 TD/0 INT Troy Aikman, 1992: 126.4 Passer Rating, 8 TD/0 INT Matt Ryan, 2016: 135.3 Passer Rating, 9 TD/0 INT Steve Young, 1994: 117.2 Passer Rating, 9 TD/0 INT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 1 minute ago, bcb1213 said: Joe Montana, 1989: 146.4 Passer Rating, 11 TD/0 INT. ( Phil Simms, 1986: 131.8 Passer Rating, 8 TD/0 INT Troy Aikman, 1992: 126.4 Passer Rating, 8 TD/0 INT Matt Ryan, 2016: 135.3 Passer Rating, 9 TD/0 INT Steve Young, 1994: 117.2 Passer Rating, 9 TD/0 INT I mean, if you want to ignore that Flacco was on the road for four games, had a significantly worse supporting cast than at least four of those QBs, and actually won the Super Bowl (looking at you, Matt Ryan), then sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 This is fun. I am learning where the low hanging fruit is with people/opinions as to where I can essentially get a passionate/volatile reaction whenever I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcb1213 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 1 minute ago, MWil23 said: This is fun. I am learning where the low hanging fruit is with people/opinions as to where I can essentially get a passionate/volatile reaction whenever I want. It's fun! Just don't become a boner nose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Just now, bcb1213 said: It's fun! Just don't become a boner nose Don't be silly. I fully intend to make vague comments to get a reaction/laugh in passing, like: "Man, Kyler Murray is pretty talented and he's still so young and inexperienced. It's crazy to think how good he already is and how good he's going to be when he starts to figure out the finer points of playing the QB position. I mean, he's already arguably a Top 10 QB in the NFL and he's only 23. I would potentially take him over Lamar given their trajectories." @Blue and @rackcs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, pheltzbahr said: Lol, really? Well, yeah, cause building off this post... 4 minutes ago, pheltzbahr said: Bottom line is both Murray and Jackson are elite RBs who are playing QB. If they can even be average level accuracy/reading a defense, they are top 10 QBs in the league due to the dual threat. If they are good level accurate/read, they are MVP level QBs based on production alone. I think that Murray is a more natural accurate passer while Lamar is more of a thrower and that Kyler is making more improvements on reading defenses than Lamar. That said, the reading defenses could be a product of Roman's offense being figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 24 minutes ago, rackcs said: This is why I'm not as sour on Lamar's struggles this season. Just a few weeks ago Lamar did an interview where he was saying how opposing defenses were consistently calling out their plays before they happened. Greg Roman always gets figured out and it's happened again. You can't win if the defense knows what you're doing. It's your classic argument: *Is the offense overly simplistic and easy to figure out because Lamar has issues winning throwing the ball from the pocket and reading defenses or *Is Lamar struggling to read defenses and unable to win consistently from the pocket because of Greg Roman getting figured out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 It's hardly a surprise that Lamar Jackson, a barely-above 50% passer in college, is struggling with accuracy in the NFL. It is likewise unsurprising that a Petrino coached quarterback is struggling to read defenses at the pro level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, Blue said: It's hardly a surprise that Lamar Jackson, a barely-above 50% passer in college, is struggling with accuracy in the NFL. It is likewise unsurprising that a Petrino coached quarterback is struggling to read defenses at the pro level. Louisville in the fall/winter back in the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rackcs Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, MWil23 said: It's your classic argument: *Is the offense overly simplistic and easy to figure out because Lamar has issues winning throwing the ball from the pocket and reading defenses or *Is Lamar struggling to read defenses and unable to win consistently from the pocket because of Greg Roman getting figured out Probably the answer is a little of both at least but considering Roman's track record of his offenses getting figured out everywhere he goes, I'd definitely put more blame on him at this point until we see Lamar without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Louisville in the fall/winter back in the day... I bet some of you guys can't even get this reference, and if so that makes me sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Just now, rackcs said: Probably the answer is a little of both at least but considering Roman's track record of his offenses getting figured out everywhere he goes, I'd definitely put more blame on him at this point until we see Lamar without him. I'll be honest, and maybe it's just that I have the benefit of studying HS and college offenses/watching solely film on them weekly in the fall, but the fact that no one could stop power read/inverted veer because they were a full fit short on the pulling guard and then decided to rotate a safety downhill as their answer, thereby vacating the middle of the field for the TE game, when they should have been daring Baltimore to beat them outside the hashes...I couldn't believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny92mike Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 We've started ironing out the details for the next ffmd if anyone is interested in joining in on the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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