mistakey Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, pnies20 said: Not what I asked. This is why I’m not going to take the time to write out a response or have any more of a debate here. You don’t have any concept of what the man mins are in length or weight but you want to debate why they’re unfair? No thanks. You aren’t going to learn enough from these skewed articles to know what is actually happening nor do I believe you even want to know anything that will begin to change your mind. Since you’re worried about people being locked up for weed take a guess at what the 5 year man min is for marijuana.... I’ll just tell you it would fill half of the bonus room I’m in right now... probably 4 feet off the floor. No im worried about it all. Im worried about our black citizens being stopped for marijuana more frequently then white ones. Im worried about general incarceration rates. Im worried about old convictions during harsher eras. Im worried about cops who dont give a *** about these disparities. but yeah, valid points backed up by documented statistics but i wont respond cause its skewed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said: The country does historically get blame for certain demographics being poor, it takes awhile to pull yourself out of that hole. Well when one side of the political spectrum pens up all the economically disadvantaged people, gives them free housing, gives them free stuff, refuses to let them have families under the threat of taking all their free stuff away and forces them to vote for them with the promise of more free stuff... you have a serious problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, mistakey said: Even if it is the case, which it probably is even tjough you havent actually made your case, it then follows that poor black people are incarcerated more absolutely and at a much higher rate than poor white people so still about race Well I don't know if they do studies on that but it seems pretty obvious. Certain demographics live in poor high crime areas where the most patrol is needed. The advantage of those neighborhoods is that you're more likely going to be able to flag down a cop but also if you are a criminal you are more likely to be caught. I'm sure there is racism at every level to a degree but I don't think it's nearly as simple as this person's skin color is this so lets arrest him and throw him in prison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mistakey said: No im worried about it all. Im worried about our black citizens being stopped for marijuana more frequently then white ones. Im worried about general incarceration rates. Im worried about old convictions during harsher eras. Im worried about cops who dont give a *** about these disparities. but yeah, valid points backed up by documented statistics but i wont respond cause its skewed Very few patrol officers ever deal with a situation where a man min is required. Most frequently higher level narcotics units and federal agencies like DEA, ATF, etc. Cops go where they are called and where there are the most problems. Where do you think that is? Edited January 26, 2020 by pnies20 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Well I don't know if they do studies on that but it seems pretty obvious. Certain demographics live in poor high crime areas where the most patrol is needed. The advantage of those neighborhoods is that you're more likely going to be able to flag down a cop but also if you are a criminal you are more likely to be caught. I'm sure there is racism at every level to a degree but I don't think it's nearly as simple as this person's skin color is this so lets arrest him and throw him in prison. This is correct and a good starting point for a rational conversation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Just now, pnies20 said: Well when one side of the political spectrum pens up all the economically disadvantaged people, gives them free housing, gives them free stuff, refuses to let them have families under the threat of taking all their free stuff away and forces them to vote for them with the promise of more free stuff... you have a serious problem. I'll talk race, religion and even occasionally sports on this board but I don't do politics... Then again, I think politics are stupid. I don't agree with either side. I have my own opinions and they don't conform to sets of rules put in front of me by either side. I still vote when I think it's important though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said: Well I don't know if they do studies on that but it seems pretty obvious. Certain demographics live in poor high crime areas where the most patrol is needed. The advantage of those neighborhoods is that you're more likely going to be able to flag down a cop but also if you are a criminal you are more likely to be caught. I'm sure there is racism at every level to a degree but I don't think it's nearly as simple as this person's skin color is this so lets arrest him and throw him in prison. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/13/how-us-law-enforcement-is-failing-to-police-itself https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/st-louis-sergeant-there-are-white-supremacists-on-the-police-force/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/newsone.com/3896000/west-virginia-white-supremacy-law-enforcement/amp/ i can go on and on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, pnies20 said: Cops go where they are called and where there are the most problems. Where do you think that is? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/07/25/does-more-policing-lead-to-less-crime-or-just-more-racial-resentment/%3FoutputType%3Damp even james comey admitted that he needed better data when he augmented his statement that said declining police presence woukd lead to an increase in crime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Interesting conversation from what i have read, i am by no means liberal, but id agree large systems are generally not fair to minorities across the board. In new zealand maori and Pacifica are less likely to get the same medical management as whites. Maori are x5 times more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia than whites, which is near impossible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, pnies20 said: Well when one side of the political spectrum pens up all the economically disadvantaged people, gives them free housing, gives them free stuff, refuses to let them have families under the threat of taking all their free stuff away and forces them to vote for them with the promise of more free stuff... you have a serious problem Edited January 26, 2020 by mistakey Nvm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Just now, mistakey said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/07/25/does-more-policing-lead-to-less-crime-or-just-more-racial-resentment/%3FoutputType%3Damp even james comey admitted that he needed better data when he augmented his statement that said declining police presence woukd lead to an increase in crime Why won’t you answer my question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 9 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: I'll bet you it's the poor black population that makes up the majority, just like the poor white and Latino population. Also, you are much more likely to get caught in poor high crime neighborhoods which helps with demographics. Also, mostly just the dumb ones get caught so be smarter at what you do even if it is crime. 6 minutes ago, big poppa pump said: Completely agree it's socioeconomic. 3 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: The country does historically get blame for certain demographics being poor, it takes awhile to pull yourself out of that hole. Socioeconomic class is an important predictor in incarceration and class is an essential aspect often missed in discussions of all social phenomena. However, class is not a predictor historically and to present day over and above racial/ethnic categorization as numerous data points and research illustrated that likelihood of incarceration is higher for people of color than for non people of color at every economic level as African-American, Indigenous, and Latino men raised in the top 1 percent were as likely to be incarcerated as their White counterparts raised in households earning about from 33,000 to 36,000. Class is important, but does not explain incarceration over and above other factors alone and Class hierarchies themselves have been historically engineered to consist mainly of certain people and not others. There are dumb criminals. However, being arrested or stop and frisked is often independent of intelligence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, mistakey said: Lets be clear here nobody wonders why you think it isnt about race What in the world are you talking about? Literally said nothing about race Edited January 26, 2020 by pnies20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, big poppa pump said: Nor am i raging. I am definitely pro police, as i have several friends that are in this line of work. Have had a relative and friend lose their life in the line of duty. When I refer to"poor babies" it's not the person that smokes a little reefer to take the edge off. I really don't care. Those that are so deep into addiction that they are hurting others to support their drug habit...(and I'm not talking about emotionally), need to have their freedom taken away for their crimes imo. Can we as a society do more to help rehabilitate offenders? It would seem so....but how often do those re-offend? Statistics will tell you often. But since you say to "be about it" you have probably sent many a letter to those in power...including public officials and lawmakers. Hopefully your ideas will be heard and society will be a better place. This boils down to a conversation about blaming the beaten dog for biting someone versus the owner who tortured the dog. If one dog owner torments millions of dogs so that they can never be adopted again or safely allowed to roam free...well, this is the analogy being made. Sure, some of those dogs will even need to be put down, sadly, but building the biggest dog prison in the world while allowing that person to keep adopting dogs with no one but lower-level kennel-keepers getting reprimanded...that is the narrative Mind was getting at. It's not really an opinion but truth on how things really are. Pretty much all of us have lost folks to substances, whether figuratively or literally, from the ravages of addiction. There is so much LEGALLY wrong and so much bad information allowed to prevail. Blaming the epidemic of addicts--could be just about any of us, and the opioid crisis has been shown to greatly affect the elderly so found be our parents and grandparents even who started out as just taking pills for pain. Statins have been shown to alter personality, sometimes permanently, and can lead to psychotic breaks. Most who get them prescribed have no idea. And why are pharmaceutical commercials in America allowed to be intentionally misleading with soft music and happy people hocking products of death? These are obvious looks into the corruption--word of the day--of things and really need not be debated (but some will perhaps). It's too simplistic to blame all drug addicts for the acts of some/call them evil in the same way as blaming all cops for 1% of their population. Also, not to sound condescending, but maybe part of the grieving process is accepting that these are broken people but still people, not rewarding their behavior but also understanding that our people are under attack; they're not inherently evil. tl;dr yup... another novel, if you care to read Honestly enjoying having a real conversation, even if it can be upsetting to struggle with us all misunderstanding one another. Edited January 26, 2020 by NudeTayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 1 minute ago, pnies20 said: Why won’t you answer my question Your question? About why you think cops arrest more minorities? I know the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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