NudeTayne Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 3 hours ago, pnies20 said: they saw weed crumbs or smelled weed. As much as it might seem like throwing out the baby with the bathwater, gray-area laws should always round up to the citizens. Smelling weed, someone seeming nervous etc. are convenient judgments to make to exert power. Again, unless you're saying this is all hyperbole (lying), had this "smell something" line used before on yours truly in California and then had officer immediately back off when it was made clear that we knew they were fishing and that we didn't appreciate it. Yet the officer still did that knowing full well that he had no reason to be bothering these innocent/not suspicious people with this extortion/imprisonment threat. Sometimes acting even a little dismissive--acknowledging the lying game the officer is playing--backfires and they pull a power trip, search the car anyway. This absolutely happens. There are plenty of video proofs and reported cases the officers get on trouble. Again, most officers are honorable, but the law maintains these loopholes (lying during a routine traffic spot is legal in California, as it is still considered an investigation), and they are tempting to take advantage of for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: I could be off base but that's been my understanding of that situation. He probably had weak legal ground to do it but if he gets your consent (even if they bluff you into thinking they are going to search it either way) they are totally clear to do a search. Yup. And this bluffing should be heavily frowned upon by the department itself instead of par for the course. "I'm going to need to search your car". Language like this should get a police officer in trouble but doesn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 The only police department I’ve ever had issues with was New Rome. Nothing really happened with those officers, they just got moved around. Pretty sure a lot of them ended up in franklin township. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, CleBrowns07 said: Heres what happened; cop sees a speeder. Cop smells weed. Cop searches car and FINDS what he smelled. Cop doesnt even cite for the weed. Thats it. How does that lead you to the conclusion of “corruption”? It shouldn't be accepted that (possibly?) smelling weed in an otherwise sober individual is means to search. If he was reckless driving, get him for reckless driving, but he was just speeding. It's really not that far off from, "You are over the time on this 2-hour parking zone so in addition to the parking ticket, I think your car smells like weed so I'm going to need to search. It doesn't matter if that possession has nothing to do with this parking ticket, but I got you for something so am gonna take the opportunity, even though I have no reason to suspect your personally of being impaired based on your behavior." It sounds pretty silly when spelled out because it is. It's systemic corruption to even be allowed to do this. Edited January 25, 2020 by NudeTayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: As much as it might seem like throwing out the baby with the bathwater, gray-area laws should always round up to the citizens. Smelling weed, someone seeming nervous etc. are convenient judgments to make to exert power. Again, unless you're saying this is all hyperbole (lying), had this "smell something" line used before on yours truly in California and then had officer immediately back off when it was made clear that we knew they were fishing and that we didn't appreciate it. Yet the officer still did that knowing full well that he had no reason to be bothering these innocent/not suspicious people with this extortion/imprisonment threat. Sometimes acting even a little dismissive--acknowledging the lying game the officer is playing--backfires and they pull a power trip, search the car anyway. This absolutely happens. There are plenty of video proofs and reported cases the officers get on trouble. Again, most officers are honorable, but the law maintains these loopholes (lying during a routine traffic spot is legal in California, as it is still considered an investigation), and they are tempting to take advantage of for some. Smelling weed and seeming nervous are on two totally opposite ends of the spectrum as far as “gray area” as you called them. One is probable cause and the other doesn’t even amount to reasonable suspicion. You can’t compare the two. i don’t doubt that these things happened to you but your conclusions as to why they acted the way they did are probably inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: Yup. And this bluffing should be heavily frowned upon by the department itself instead of par for the course. "I'm going to need to search your car". Language like this should get a police officer in trouble but doesn't. I'm not going to necessarily agree or disagree with you there. I can see cases where it can be a good tool to bust hard drug dealers. If you can get a hot shot slinging fentanyl/heroin to agree to a search you might have saved some lives. Or somebody driving with a bunch of unlicensed firearms that's up to no good. If you're doing it to bust naive teenagers/young adults driving around with small amounts of pot and then throw the book it's kind of predatory. I think unfortunately the former are going to be much more difficult to consent to a search than the latter so you hear about the latter more (plus it's more common). There are cops in this forum I'd like to hear their perspective on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: It shouldn't be accepted that (possibly?) smelling weed in an otherwise sober individual is means to search. If he was reckless driving, get him for reckless driving, but he was just speeding. It's really not that far off from, "You are over the time on this 2-hour parking zone so in addition to the parking ticket, I think your car smells like weed so I'm going to need to search. It doesn't matter if that possession has nothing to do with this parking ticket, but I got you for something so am gonna take the opportunity, even though I have no reason to suspect your personally of being impaired based on your behavior." It sounds pretty silly when spelled out because it is. It's systemic corruption to even be allowed to do this. Sorry but this has been upheld 100/100 in the Supreme Court. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 1 minute ago, pnies20 said: Sorry but this has been upheld 100/100 in the Supreme Court. This has gone to the Supreme Court? I can remember a case in high school where some kids got out of a possession charge because of an unlawful search, but I don't remember if they were in violation of any traffic laws 🤷♂️ Or maybe I'm misremembering the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Yep I'm off base. Marijuana odor is probable cause to search a car. Kind of dumb since they could just make it up on the spot but hey don't toke and drive kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, pnies20 said: Sorry but this has been upheld 100/100 in the Supreme Court. Doesn't make it right, only legal. 3 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: I'm not going to necessarily agree or disagree with you there. I can see cases where it can be a good tool to bust hard drug dealers. If you can get a hot shot slinging fentanyl/heroin to agree to a search you might have saved some lives. Or somebody driving with a bunch of unlicensed firearms that's up to no good. If you're doing it to bust naive teenagers/young adults driving around with small amounts of pot and then throw the book it's kind of predatory. I think unfortunately the former are going to be much more difficult to consent to a search than the latter so you hear about the latter more (plus it's more common). There are cops in this forum I'd like to hear their perspective on it. Guess we should just clean up inner city Chicago by having its officers arrest everyone who "looks like a thug", then search their vehicles and homes. Even though it would greatly harm the 90+ percent who were totally innocent, it DID clean up the streets, eh... This IS predatory behavior and should not be allowed. It's a mind game being played from a position of power. This is a slippery slope we need not go down any further. Also, there is absolutely zero strong correlation between smelling weed and finding fentanyl. It's clearly just one more way to search as many people as possible and play the numbers game. 3 minutes ago, pnies20 said: Smelling weed and seeming nervous are on two totally opposite ends of the spectrum as far as “gray area” as you called them. One is probable cause and the other doesn’t even amount to reasonable suspicion. You can’t compare the two. Nope. One is used to support the other. It's part of an intimidation tactic to rather people and control situations. Source: Tayne was there. Come on, man; stop acting like this stuff isn't straightforward. It's used all the time here, unless literally pretty much everyone, including Tayne, is lying for absolutely no reason 😂. Had the "nervous" excuse used with and without the "I smell something", though, if that's what you're getting at. These are general catch-alls. They are gray areas because they are subjective to a point. That seems like it was made pretty clear. 3 minutes ago, pnies20 said: i don’t doubt that these things happened to you but your conclusions as to why they acted the way they did are probably inaccurate. Or someone who wasn't there who feels the need to defend his own no matter what is probably inaccurate 🤔... (no @theereal intended there; however, that's a pretty condescending tone to take) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, big poppa pump said: this would get 100 likes from me if it could This would get 100 dislikes from Tayne if it could. *retracts rainbow-hand and forms unholy alliance with @Mind Character* Edited January 25, 2020 by NudeTayne Tayne does have another free hand, though... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: Doesn't make it right, only legal. Guess we should just clean up inner city Chicago by having its officers arrest everyone who "looks like a thug", then search their vehicles and homes. Even though it would greatly harm the 90+ percent who were totally innocent, it DID clean up the streets, eh... This IS predatory behavior and should not be allowed. It's a mind game being played from a position of power. This is a slippery slope we need not go down any further. Also, there is absolutely zero strong correlation between smelling weed and finding fentanyl. It's clearly just one more way to search as many people as possible and play the numbers game. Nope. One is used to support the other. It's part of an intimidation tactic to rather people and control situations. Source: Tayne was there. Come on, man; stop acting like this stuff isn't straightforward. It's used all the time here, unless literally pretty much everyone, including Tayne, is lying for absolutely no reason 😂. Had the "nervous" excuse used with and without the "I smell something", though, if that's what you're getting at. These are general catch-alls. They are gray areas because they are subjective to a point. That seems like it was made pretty clear. Or someone who wasn't there who feels the need to defend his own no matter what is probably inaccurate 🤔... (no @theereal intended there; however, that's a pretty condescending tone to take) I didn’t mean to be condescending. I would never take up for a corrupt police officer. I’d rather help get him fired/arrested. There’s zero room for corruption. There is however a big difference between corruption and a rude cop/a cop not knowing what he/she is doing. I was merely trying to point out that there are always dozens of factors playing into what an officer is doing of which the citizen is unaware. It would take too long to type, especially where narcotics are concerned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, pnies20 said: I didn’t mean to be condescending. I would never take up for a corrupt police officer. I’d rather help get him fired/arrested. There’s zero room for corruption. There is however a big difference between corruption and a rude cop/a cop not knowing what he/she is doing. I was merely trying to point out that there are always dozens of factors playing into what an officer is doing of which the citizen is unaware. It would take too long to type, especially where narcotics are concerned. Thank you. Totally understand that the stakes are high. Drugs are ruining this entire country, and we both know that is not hyperbole. Was having a discussion with a friend the other day, and we both agreed that it is so sad we have so many homeless people and yet the majority are hooked on a substance or substances. It makes them near impossible to even help, and that is heartbreaking as much as anything. Do a lot of fasting and have had some moments of deeply feeling the pain right outside the window. May or may not have cried--cannot confirm--at the long end of an electrolyte fast after a sort of meditation on existence/conversation into the void and then looking out the window--third story apartment overlooking Old Town Eureka--to see a homeless man having a breakdown by himself on a cold night, clearly on drugs and clearly as alone as a human can possibly be. The old times of taking to helping a person, giving them something to do that is productive, helping them with food, clothes, blankets, maybe even a spot to sleep are mostly gone because those people have so much mentally and emotionally going on that they become dangerous and impossible to trust. It's easy to say it's just that we need more mental hospitals, which is more of a band-aid in a lot of situations. Unless it's something really junk, generally have beggars turn down healthy food. Gave someone a warm hat and blanket the other day and his energy wasn't thankful at all, more wrapped up in his suffering than even able to see gifts anymore. Didn't need the personal thanks, but it felt disheartening to experience how on their own people feel. Living here in a city that is no more than 35,000 people yet has one of the densest crime/drug and homeless issues in the state has been quite an experience. It's sad that such a large part of law enforcement has to spend its time dealing with hard drugs and the fallout from hard drugs. Honestly, unpopular opinion being from a cannabis capital of the country, but it is now used as a coping mechanism (easy to see and acknowledge for anyone who can separate their own experience from observing decades of the trajectories of others around them with a product that is mainstream in its usage) for more than not (but so is alcohol). The number of Josh Gordons seems to be rising and the numbers of silly laughing mandala t-shirt folks--though often enough a certain psychology at play here as well--me fading into the background. With a furthering of the collective rejection of self is a tighter grasp on anything to aid in escape. @Soapbox Tayne wishes we lived in a more loving society where people aren't trying to escape something. And no, not saying that these things should be made illegal, but the original point was that we may be going about some things in an antihuman manner. Anyways, this can all fade out unless folks actually want to discuss any further--not trying to upset everyone any more than usual 😁. Kept this going a bit longer because it seems folks are trained to faction-up the second anything with police is mentioned. The binary of (1) cops are all against us or (2) all cops are good guys doing their best both seem too simplistic. Edited January 25, 2020 by NudeTayne R.I.P. @stoicTayne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 18 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: Thank you. Totally understand that the stakes are high. Drugs are ruining this entire country, and we both know that is not hyperbole. Was having a discussion with a friend the other day, and we both agreed that it is so sad we have so many homeless people and yet the majority are hooked on a substance or substances. It makes them near impossible to even help, and that is heartbreaking as much as anything. Do a lot of fasting and have had some moments of deeply feeling the pain right outside the window. May or may not have cried--cannot confirm--at the long end of an electrolyte fast after a sort of meditation on existence/conversation into the void and then looking out the window--third story apartment overlooking Old Town Eureka--to see a homeless man having a breakdown by himself on a cold night, clearly on drugs and clearly as alone as a human can possibly be. The old times of taking to helping a person, giving them something to do that is productive, helping them with food, clothes, blankets, maybe even a spot to sleep are mostly gone because those people have so much mentally and emotionally going on that they become dangerous and impossible to trust. It's easy to say it's just that we need more mental hospitals, which is more of a band-aid in a lot of situations. Unless it's something really junk, generally have beggars turn down healthy food. Gave someone a warm hat and blanket the other day and his energy wasn't thankful at all, more wrapped up in his suffering than even able to see gifts anymore. Didn't need the personal thanks, but it felt disheartening to experience how on their own people feel. Living here in a city that is no more than 35,000 people yet has one of the densest crime/drug and homeless issues in the state has been quite an experience. It's sad that such a large part of law enforcement has to spend its time dealing with hard drugs and the fallout from hard drugs. Honestly, unpopular opinion being from a cannabis capital of the country, but it is now used as a coping mechanism (easy to see and acknowledge for anyone who can separate their own experience from observing decades of the trajectories of others around them with a product that is mainstream in its usage) for more than not (but so is alcohol). The number of Josh Gordons seems to be rising and the numbers of silly laughing mandala t-shirt folks--though often enough a certain psychology at play here as well--me fading into the background. With a furthering of the collective rejection of self is a tighter grasp on anything to aid in escape. @Soapbox Tayne wishes we lived in a more loving society where people aren't trying to escape something. And no, not saying that these things should be made illegal, but the original point was that we may be going about some things in an antihuman manner. Anyways, this can all fade out unless folks actually want to discuss any further--not trying to upset everyone any more than usual 😁. Kept this going a bit longer because it seems folks are trained to faction-up the second anything with police is mentioned. The binary of (1) cops are all against us or (2) all cops are good guys doing their best both seem too simplistic. Look I’m not debating whether or not weed should be legal. Not even going to touch it. Don’t let your opinions on that determine your views on the ones enforcing laws already in place. Sure some are rude, some are bad at their job and less than one percent are corrupt. That doesn’t equate to cops rampantly searching cars illegally to frustrate teenagers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: Thank you. Totally understand that the stakes are high. Drugs are ruining this entire country, and we both know that is not hyperbole. Was having a discussion with a friend the other day, and we both agreed that it is so sad we have so many homeless people and yet the majority are hooked on a substance or substances. It makes them near impossible to even help, and that is heartbreaking as much as anything. Do a lot of fasting and have had some moments of deeply feeling the pain right outside the window. May or may not have cried--cannot confirm--at the long end of an electrolyte fast after a sort of meditation on existence/conversation into the void and then looking out the window--third story apartment overlooking Old Town Eureka--to see a homeless man having a breakdown by himself on a cold night, clearly on drugs and clearly as alone as a human can possibly be. The old times of taking to helping a person, giving them something to do that is productive, helping them with food, clothes, blankets, maybe even a spot to sleep are mostly gone because those people have so much mentally and emotionally going on that they become dangerous and impossible to trust. It's easy to say it's just that we need more mental hospitals, which is more of a band-aid in a lot of situations. Unless it's something really junk, generally have beggars turn down healthy food. Gave someone a warm hat and blanket the other day and his energy wasn't thankful at all, more wrapped up in his suffering than even able to see gifts anymore. Didn't need the personal thanks, but it felt disheartening to experience how on their own people feel. Living here in a city that is no more than 35,000 people yet has one of the densest crime/drug and homeless issues in the state has been quite an experience. It's sad that such a large part of law enforcement has to spend its time dealing with hard drugs and the fallout from hard drugs. Honestly, unpopular opinion being from a cannabis capital of the country, but it is now used as a coping mechanism (easy to see and acknowledge for anyone who can separate their own experience from observing decades of the trajectories of others around them with a product that is mainstream in its usage) for more than not (but so is alcohol). The number of Josh Gordons seems to be rising and the numbers of silly laughing mandala t-shirt folks--though often enough a certain psychology at play here as well--me fading into the background. With a furthering of the collective rejection of self is a tighter grasp on anything to aid in escape. @Soapbox Tayne wishes we lived in a more loving society where people aren't trying to escape something. And no, not saying that these things should be made illegal, but the original point was that we may be going about some things in an antihuman manner. Anyways, this can all fade out unless folks actually want to discuss any further--not trying to upset everyone any more than usual 😁. Kept this going a bit longer because it seems folks are trained to faction-up the second anything with police is mentioned. The binary of (1) cops are all against us or (2) all cops are good guys doing their best both seem too simplistic. And whilst Tayne and Mind rail about the legality/illegality of searches, they will be the first to call the police when a precarious situation arises. For all the complaining of the personal injustices suffered as an innocent party, guns and drugs are being taken off the streets with these so-called shady stops. If Tayne is as relaxed, and chill as he portrays, a stop by the police should not affect his nature. Innocent people have nothing to hide. One should welcome the minor inconvenience, knowing that there will be a bad guy or 2 (one that could possibly harm Tayne) taken off the street in a similar manner. Edited January 25, 2020 by big poppa pump please stop writing mind character sized posts. It's unbecoming...extends rainbow hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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