cddolphin Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Starless said: With New England, yeah. How was that determination made? Why would Kraft do that? I'm curious what the story is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Just now, cddolphin said: How was that determination made? Why would Kraft do that? I'm curious what the story is. Kraft really wanted Belichick (hence sending a 1st round pick to the Jets to get him) and Belichick had some terms of his own that he set with Kraft before taking the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 On 21/09/2017 at 5:47 PM, Starless said: Kraft really wanted Belichick (hence sending a 1st round pick to the Jets to get him) and Belichick had some terms of his own that he set with Kraft before taking the job. I find Kraft smug and annoying but he is really underrated in the Pats success. Does set a good culture, and lets Bill do his thing. That trade was ballsy as well, BB was a disaster in CLE and I can imagine if this had happened in social media era he'd have been panned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 As others have touched on, it's Belichick's versatility, flexibility, and willingness to adapt. He's pretty much the only coach that is not tied to a specific scheme, offensively or defensively, and that allows him to use his personnel to their strengths by not having to abide by static prototypes and also stay ahead of the curve of NFL trends. Two recent examples: 1) In 2016 NE's game 3 during Brady's suspension, and Garoppolo's injury, most coaches would force their stripped down offense on the 3rd string QB and use that crutch as an excuse. Instead Belichick not only tailored the offense to Brisset but changed it entirely by running an offense from father's Navy era of coaching which was in basic some good ol' 1920's T-formation and single wing offense b/c it was a better fit for that QB's skill set. 2) I'm sure many have heard how Belichick forces the opposition to play outside their comfort zone and he did just that vs offenses in 2016 as well. With NFL offense's most popular formation being 11 personnel - which puts defenses primarily with Nickel - and the most popular run being the Inside Zone, BB was able defend both with a single look. Last year the Patriots defensively lined up in a 3-3-5 Bear Front. This formation was able to combat the pass favorable offenses with a back 8, while also taking away the inside zone by putting his NT over the Center, and two DT's shaded over the outside of the Guards (A zero technique, and two 3 techs). This gave offenses trouble using zone runs b/c it disrupted the interior lineman's ability to reach the second level and put a hat on MLB Hightower and SS Chung who often lingered over the slot or in the box for secondary run help. There are very few coaches who are not only willing, but also smart enough to be able to stray from the schemes and systems they were brought up in. Match that with Belichick's total control over football operations and you'll find your reason why HC's across the NFL landscape have a difficult time imitating his success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Ducks Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 On 9/18/2017 at 5:21 PM, Malik said: Because the things that separate Belichick from everyone else has nothing to do with schemes or an overaching offensive/defensive philosophy. His flexibility is unrivaled. He doesn't stick to things that aren't working because he decided to stick with him. The majority of the coaches in the league have been coaching as just their way or the highway their entire life. We have to wait 20 years for a completely new generation of coaches before we will see more people like Belichick. This. Chip Kelly was the best football mind in the league but he was too stubborn and his owners weren't patient enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I dont think its that simple. You can do some of the things they do when you have a GOAT QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 We don't win yesterday without Brady, even if Bill IS the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazStandard Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 On 22/09/2017 at 8:20 PM, Jraider91 said: I find Kraft smug and annoying but he is really underrated in the Pats success. Does set a good culture, and lets Bill do his thing. That trade was ballsy as well, BB was a disaster in CLE and I can imagine if this had happened in social media era he'd have been panned. That's overstating it a bit - he still had an OK record. Made the play-offs and got a win. They had a great staff, and some good players, I honestly think the move is what killed that Browns team. The "Football Life" about the 1995 Cleveland Browns is really interesting, maybe the best of the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 3 hours ago, ChazStandard said: That's overstating it a bit - he still had an OK record. Made the play-offs and got a win. They had a great staff, and some good players, I honestly think the move is what killed that Browns team. The "Football Life" about the 1995 Cleveland Browns is really interesting, maybe the best of the series. I agree with you here. The last time the Browns had a postseason win was with Belichick and the following year Modell ripped the rug from out from under the franchise in announcing the move to Baltimore mid-season. Also of note, after Cleveland's loss to Pittsburgh in the second round of the playoffs, Belichick and Nick Saban (his DC) developed the most effective pass defense coverage in modern football - Pattern Match. It's a coverage where defenders play zone within the first 5-7 yards and then pick up there man after the receivers declare their routes.This was their solution to defending 4 verts while in Cover 3 and it evolved from there. To dispel a Belichick myth in this thread he did not bring the 3-4 defense to the NFL. It was introduced in the 70's and it's NFL use is most likely accredited to DC Bill Arsnparger. Where Belichick succeeded with the 3-4 was making it a versatile hybrid b/w the tradition 2 gap and the modern 1, depending on how he wanted to attack the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaserFocus Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 On 9/18/2017 at 6:32 PM, Bolts223 said: For example everyone copied the west coast offense from Walsh. It's really hard to even put into words how good of a football coach Bill Belichick is. I don't really think you can make a case for someone like Vince Lombardi anymore as the GOAT coach, Belichick is just so clearly heads and shoulders than any head coach at the NFL level. Anyways, it seems like there is really no coach like him either. The premise of Belichick's coaching philosophy is to make some use out of every single roster spot. Every person on that roster has an attribute that can contribute to a very specific situation that may come up in a certain situation. (IE Do your job) It's part of how well he coaches situational football. Yet, you don't see very many coaches with this type of philosophy, it hasn't really revolutionized NFL coaching like the west coast offense has. I guess my question is, why is this? Shouldn't other coaches be trying to emulate what Belichick and the Patriots have done, being that they have been the golden standard in the NFL for 16 years now? No doubt Belichick is elite when talking about the best head coaches ever, but he enjoyed the advantage of inheriting a 8-8 football team from Pete Carroll. Several players on Belichick's first Patriots team would contribute to the winning of at least one SB. Legendary coaches like Paul Brown, Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, and Bill Walsh had to basically start from scratch, and build a winning culture. Ditto for Don Shula. Belichick inherited a team which had won the AFC just a few seasons earlier, big difference. It's more difficult to do a total rebuild, any day of the week. I give Belichick full credit for his sustained success in the salary cap era, but Tom Brady has been by far the best player on those teams. The Patriots have a strong organization, and Belichick is a great coach, but let's not go overboard here. Belichick didn't suddenly get smarter when Brady arrived, rather, Brady has been the difference in these very tight Super Bowls. When a lesser QB isn't able to replicate Brady's success, that also won't mean Belichick is slipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joru1000 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Because Belichick's philosophy is to find the talent that others miss. You can't really "copy" that. The most recent example is the Brandin Cooks trade. Belichick is smart, the Saints' front office is dumb. They gave up Brandin Cooks for a 4th and now Brandin Cooks will go on to have an All-Pro season because Belichick knew he was talented and not to waste him. It's just like every year when I watch the draft. Without naming names, some teams are just completely clueless. They consistently make laughably bad picks, trades, etc, because stupid people/teams do stupid things, while smart teams like the Pats do smart things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cddolphin Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 1 minute ago, joru1000 said: Because Belichick's philosophy is to find the talent that others miss. You can't really "copy" that. The most recent example is the Brandin Cooks trade. A former first round pick is an example of missed talent? You're not necessarily wrong, but Cooks is a bad example. I'd say more that Belichick finds talent being mis-used or mis-cast. Welker is the biggest example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joru1000 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, cddolphin said: A former first round pick is an example of missed talent? You're not necessarily wrong, but Cooks is a bad example. I'd say more that Belichick finds talent being mis-used or mis-cast. Welker is the biggest example. Randy Moss for a 4th rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cddolphin Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, joru1000 said: Randy Moss for a 4th rounder. Sure from the Raiders but we knew from his time in Minnesota Moss was legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 It's not even that. He'll find a receiver and say: he does "a" mediocre He does "b" fantastically at one of the best levels in the league. He does "c" very well He's poor at "d" and terrible at "e". Then he'll sign him and use him for "b" and "c" and never use him for "a", "d", and "e" because he has other guys who can do that. Another coach will take the same guy and say "hmmm my system requires our receiver to do this and this so he has to be able to do it". Belichick signs skill sets, not players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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