2020 NFL Draft: Discussion, Reports, Rumors, and Studies

[Heymangold]

so it's been 8 years!  time to go WR.

 

i too fell into the hill hype. injuries and stone hands!

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, Heymangold said:

so it's been 8 years!  time to go WR.

 

i too fell into the hill hype. injuries and stone hands!

I for one had a feeling Hill was going to be a bust. Typical combine warrior. We got tricked into it with Calvin and DT being good from Georgia Tech and thought he was the next. When he wasn’t nearly as good and we all knew that.

[Bobby816]

6 minutes ago, dcat said:

Guilty. That was the Quinton Coples 2012 draft.  The one where Rex promised Coples at the combine that he would be the pick if there (ending all doubt about who controlled the 1st round of every Rex-Tanny draft.)  I liked the Hill pick and I was giddy after game 1 against Buffalo with his two TDs.  And then someone kicked me right in the nuts. 

Macc did this with Maye a few years ago when we obviously should have drafted Dalvin Cook.

[Rockice_8]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

Haha. It’s an interesting stat. But like a lot of stats... it doesn’t tell the whole story. Look at who won the SB in that time frame and who the QB was.

2020: Mahomes

2019: Brady

2018: Foles

2017: Brady

2016: Peyton Manning

2015: Brady

2014: Wilson

2013: Joe Flacco

2012: Eli Manning

2011: Rodgers

2010: Brees

 

So over those 11 years you have 5 of them won by sure fire HOF QBs in Brady, Peyton and Brees. Then you look at other Elite QBs but not sure if they’re HOFers (that’s not the debate here) and that’s 2 more in Rodgers and Wilson. Then you have a guy like Mahomes who broke records with his QB play with another. So there’s 8 of the SBs won pretty much bc they have a superhuman QB. The 3 remaining are Foles, Flacco and Eli.

 

So this stat really doesn’t solve anything for me at WR. It tells me you have to have a star QB to win. Darnold isn’t even at the “good” stage yet.

 

When Darnold is great... I’ll entertain that we don’t need great weapons for us to win. 

Fastest way to make a young QB great is to protect him.  

[Dr.O]

1 hour ago, Heymangold said:

so it's been 8 years!  time to go WR.

 

i too fell into the hill hype. injuries and stone hands!

I thought Devin Smith was gonna be Mike Wallace 2.0....man I was wrong lol

[dcat]

7 minutes ago, Dr.O said:

I thought Devin Smith was gonna be Mike Wallace 2.0....man I was wrong lol

I truly believe that the Jets are cursed on round 2 in general, but for sure we are cursed with round 2 WRs.  It matters not who the GM has been.  It is an evil, dark spirit upon us.  Something bad ust have happened after 1977.

In 1977 we drafted Wesley Walker in round 2.  Since then, these have been our round 2 WR selections: Ralph Clayton, Reggie Rembert, Ryan Yarborough, Alex Van Dyke, Stephen Hill, Devin Smith.   

Some of the better Jets 2nd rounders of the past: Wesley Walker, Dennis Byrd, David Harris, Mark Gastineau, Jim Sweeney, Johnny Hector, Reggie McElroy.  The list of Horrific ones is too toxic to post in full.

[Heymangold]

10 minutes ago, dcat said:

I truly believe that the Jets are cursed on round 2 in general, but for sure we are cursed with round 2 WRs.  It matters not who the GM has been.  It is an evil, dark spirit upon us.  Something bad ust have happened after 1977.

In 1977 we drafted Wesley Walker in round 2.  Since then, these have been our round 2 WR selections: Ralph Clayton, Reggie Rembert, Ryan Yarborough, Alex Van Dyke, Stephen Hill, Devin Smith.   

Some of the better Jets 2nd rounders of the past: Wesley Walker, Dennis Byrd, David Harris, Mark Gastineau, Jim Sweeney, Johnny Hector, Reggie McElroy.  The list of Horrific ones is too toxic to post in full.

even better reason to go WR at 11!

[Bobby816]

57 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Fastest way to make a young QB great is to protect him.  

Won’t ever hear me disagree with that. I fully believe in a good OL. But as I see it... we made 4 signings on the OL and downgraded at WR. So while I’d still like a OT... WR is more of a need for me now. I all pre FA was only looking at OTs for ya. But post FA it switched to WR. And there’s 3 WRs completely worthy of the 11th pick. Would not be a reach at all

[Bobby816]

Super Bowl winning teams LTs

 

2019: Eric Fisher (1st overall pick): only 1 pro bowl to his name. Is he a solid starter? Yes. But if you ask me... he hasn’t at all lived up to the 1st overall pick.

 

2018: Trent Brown (7th Rounder) Was a pro bowler last year for the Raiders.

 

2017: Jason Peters (undrafted) with 9 pro bowls to his name. He got injured that year though and Hala Vaitai replaced him who was a 5th Rounder.

 

2016: Ryan Harris (3rd Round) nothing impressive at LT.

 

2015: Nate Solder (17th overall) has had a solid career. But I’d say has never lived up to his defat spot. Considered good bc he was in NE system and moving to the NYG showed who he really is as a player. And that’s just a solid starter.

 

2014: Russell Okung (6th overall) very solid career. But has bounced around teams. In the last 6 years he’s played for 4 different teams. So I wouldn’t call him a great pick bc he was not a building block. He lasted a rookie contract pretty much with Seattle. 

 

2013: Bryant McKinnie (7th overall) didn’t start a single game for Baltimore in the regular season but started every game at LT in the playoffs. Was at the end of his career at this stage. In fact retired the next year bc of how bad he was. Was far from great for Baltimore at this stage

 

2012: Will Beaty (2nd Round) very average player. Nothing special but got the job done enough to win a couple SBs.

 

2011: Marshall Newhouse (5th Rounder) solid player but like others has bounced around teams. I believe he’s been in the league for 11 years and has played for 8 teams. 

 

2010: Jermon Bushrod (4th rounder) solid career but nothing special.

 

Just showing the other side that you don’t need a top 11 draft pick at LT to win either. For all who keep saying winning teams don’t have a #1 WR.

 

Id also like to point out that nearly half of these SB winning teams had a GREAT TE that acted as a #1 WR. We don’t have that either (tap the breaks on Herndon).

[Rockice_8]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

Super Bowl winning teams LTs

 

2019: Eric Fisher (1st overall pick): only 1 pro bowl to his name. Is he a solid starter? Yes. But if you ask me... he hasn’t at all lived up to the 1st overall pick.

 

2018: Trent Brown (7th Rounder) Was a pro bowler last year for the Raiders.

 

2017: Jason Peters (undrafted) with 9 pro bowls to his name. He got injured that year though and Hala Vaitai replaced him who was a 5th Rounder.

 

2016: Ryan Harris (3rd Round) nothing impressive at LT.

 

2015: Nate Solder (17th overall) has had a solid career. But I’d say has never lived up to his defat spot. Considered good bc he was in NE system and moving to the NYG showed who he really is as a player. And that’s just a solid starter.

 

2014: Russell Okung (6th overall) very solid career. But has bounced around teams. In the last 6 years he’s played for 4 different teams. So I wouldn’t call him a great pick bc he was not a building block. He lasted a rookie contract pretty much with Seattle. 

 

2013: Bryant McKinnie (7th overall) didn’t start a single game for Baltimore in the regular season but started every game at LT in the playoffs. Was at the end of his career at this stage. In fact retired the next year bc of how bad he was. Was far from great for Baltimore at this stage

 

2012: Will Beaty (2nd Round) very average player. Nothing special but got the job done enough to win a couple SBs.

 

2011: Marshall Newhouse (5th Rounder) solid player but like others has bounced around teams. I believe he’s been in the league for 11 years and has played for 8 teams. 

 

2010: Jermon Bushrod (4th rounder) solid career but nothing special.

 

Just showing the other side that you don’t need a top 11 draft pick at LT to win either. For all who keep saying winning teams don’t have a #1 WR.

 

Id also like to point out that nearly half of these SB winning teams had a GREAT TE that acted as a #1 WR. We don’t have that either (tap the breaks on Herndon).

So none outside of KC last year had great WRs either?  No idea why you aren't excited about Herndon.  Guy had one of the better rookie seasons for a TE so his trajectory is there with some of the great TEs in the NFL.  Assuming he remains healthy that is.  I wouldn't call him injury probe yet though.

We also have a high level slot WR and one of the most complete RBs in football.  Bell is another reason why I want OL.  They can help the QB but also our best weapon Bell.  Perriman will replace a lot of what Robby brought and could even be an upgrade given he looks like he is figuring it out and has a higher ceiling.  Sometimes is just take these guy a few years to get comfortable.  

I'm really liking Pittman in round 2.  He has great size and uses it well on all levels of the field.  His hands are excellent and he could be another weapon.  I'm also double dipping at WR in round 3 or 4 with a guy like Edwards or Tyler Johnson.  

I just can't shake how much better Sam is with time in the pocket even with the crap we had last year at WR and TE without Herndon.  This year he'll have even more to work with and I can't trust Fant and Edoga for a full season.  The last time we were good we played good defense and had a great OL.  We have a good defense just need the OL.  I trust Sam with time can make his WRs better given the evidence we know about him with a clean pocket.

Id love to have Lamb or Ruggs but that is a luxury pick we need a long term answer at LT, and hope Edoga can be the long term RT.  We can then move Fant for a pick.  We make good strides in the OL and it is set up for long term success then I'm all for adding a weapon that can propel Sam to the next level.  I can't in good conscience promote a WR with 4-5 OT studs in play and the OL in such uncertainly.

I won't hate if we walk away with Lamb but I trust JD will make the right call and go with an OT even if 2 or 3 are off the board.  Jones, Becton, Thomas are all elite prospects and worthy of 11.

We all know how a bad OL can ruin a whole season we just witnessed it.  If we had Lamb last year it wouldn't have mattered.  Even the best CBs can't cover mediocre WRs for 4 plus secs.  Give Sam time and he will succeed even without a star WR.

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Rockice_8

[Dr.O]

I’m starting to like Pittman more, was against him at first but after watching more film I think he could be a solid WR at the next level. Give me Pittman in R2 and Bowden somewhere in R3 or 4 and we’re in business.

[KodiakThunder]

10 minutes ago, Dr.O said:

I’m starting to like Pittman more, was against him at first but after watching more film I think he could be a solid WR at the next level. Give me Pittman in R2 and Bowden somewhere in R3 or 4 and we’re in business.

I like Pittman also but not better than a lot of other WR's that should be there for our 2nd (Mims, Shenault, Reagor, ect). If he falls to the 3rd I'd snag him in a second though. 

P.S. I'm aware the majority of good top 1st/2nd round wrs will be gone but i think someone at WR will fall to us in the 2nd. Theres about 7-8 wr's in this draft that i have at least as a high 2nd round grade. Pittman has a mid/late 2nd grade for me. I dont see the explosion in his tape that I do for others. 

[KimuraGod]

18 minutes ago, Dr.O said:

I’m starting to like Pittman more, was against him at first but after watching more film I think he could be a solid WR at the next level. Give me Pittman in R2 and Bowden somewhere in R3 or 4 and we’re in business.

I’m also back on the Pittman bandwagon after watching him more. Would love him in the 3rd. 
Dunervay or Bowden would be ideal in rounds 4/5. 
 

I would legit grab three wide receivers this year though. 

[Bobby816]

25 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

So none outside of KC last year had great WRs either?  No idea why you aren't excited about Herndon.  Guy had one of the better rookie seasons for a TE so his trajectory is there with some of the great TEs in the NFL.  Assuming he remains healthy that is.  I wouldn't call him injury probe yet though.

We also have a high level slot WR and one of the most complete RBs in football.  Bell is another reason why I want OL.  They can help the QB but also our best weapon Bell.  Perriman will replace a lot of what Robby brought and could even be an upgrade given he looks like he is figuring it out and has a higher ceiling.  Sometimes is just take these guy a few years to get comfortable.  

I'm really liking Pittman in round 2.  He has great size and uses it well on all levels of the field.  His hands are excellent and he could be another weapon.  I'm also double dipping at WR in round 3 or 4 with a guy like Edwards or Tyler Johnson.  

I just can't shake how much better Sam is with time in the pocket even with the crap we had last year at WR and TE without Herndon.  This year he'll have even more to work with and I can't trust Fant and Edoga for a full season.  The last time we were good we played good defense and had a great OL.  We have a good defense just need the OL.  I trust Sam with time can make his WRs better given the evidence we know about him with a clean pocket.

Id love to have Lamb or Ruggs but that is a luxury pick we need a long term answer at LT, and hope Edoga can be the long term RT.  We can then move Fant for a pick.  We make good strides in the OL and it is set up for long term success then I'm all for adding a weapon that can propel Sam to the next level.  I can't in good conscience promote a WR with 4-5 OT studs in play and the OL in such uncertainly.

I won't hate if we walk away with Lamb but I trust JD will make the right call and go with an OT even if 2 or 3 are off the board.  Jones, Becton, Thomas are all elite prospects and worthy of 11.

We all know how a bad OL can ruin a whole season we just witnessed it.  If we had Lamb last year it wouldn't have mattered.  Even the best CBs can't cover mediocre WRs for 4 plus secs.  Give Sam time and he will succeed even without a star WR.

 

Listen I totally understand what you’re saying... but the OL has been addressed. Yes not to the level we’d all like. But as I’ve stated did we really think we were getting 5 new starters in 1 offseason? And I couldn’t disagree more that WR is a “luxury” pick. When Vyncent Smith is slated as a starting WR... it’s not a luxury to get a great WR. Protecting Sam 100% is HUGE... but protecting him to throw to below average players... is rather pointless. 

[NYJets4716]

Wr is not a luxury when you have no one. It's a necessity to give Darnold a legit target. You add a Lamb or Jeudy,  our offense suddenly becomes more legit. Darnold has the ability to break out.