Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[mission27]

1 minute ago, vikesfan89 said:

I get that. I do think there is things they can do to minimize the risk though. 

Yeah I agree

With all of this stuff, putting in place common sense distancing and cleaning and restricting how many can participate is FAR preferable imo to completely prohibiting it for up to 18 months or longer, which is the most extreme approach 

Sure for most of us movie theaters are very non-essential, but if you are someone who loves going to the movies or works in the film industry or works at a movie theater, closing movie theaters for 18 months is going to have a major impact on your life

Sure for many people getting on an airplane is a rare occurrence but for some of us we live our lives between multiple cities, states, and even countries and being restricted from traveling for 18 months would be a huge deal from a personal and professional perspective 

I think its easy to sit here and say XYZ is non-essential and we can sacrifice it indefinitely when XYZ isn't something thats a big part of your life or work.  Its harder for people who are directly impacted 

[vikesfan89]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Individual responsibility is all well and good, but these decisions impact more than the individual, hence the discussion.

If people acted responsibly we wouldn’t have needed stay at home orders and closing of businesses, but I would have thought my now it would be clear that many don’t act responsibly, even if you or I would.

I think people will take it more seriously now than a month ago.

People were social distancing while protesting

[vikesfan89]

3 minutes ago, mission27 said:

Yeah I agree

With all of this stuff, putting in place common sense distancing and cleaning and restricting how many can participate is FAR preferable imo to completely prohibiting it for up to 18 months or longer, which is the most extreme approach 

Sure for most of us movie theaters are very non-essential, but if you are someone who loves going to the movies or works in the film industry or works at a movie theater, closing movie theaters for 18 months is going to have a major impact on your life

Sure for many people getting on an airplane is a rare occurrence but for some of us we live our lives between multiple cities, states, and even countries and being restricted from traveling for 18 months would be a huge deal from a personal and professional perspective 

I think its easy to sit here and say XYZ is non-essential and we can sacrifice it indefinitely when XYZ isn't something thats a big part of your life or work.  Its harder for people who are directly impacted 

I could go quite a while without going to a theater. I wouldn't mind them still being open when this is all over though

[naptownskinsfan]

Also, to my discussion point about gyms and movie theaters needing to sanitize surfaces and equipment, every business is going to have to do this to some degree when they reopen.  Some stores will need to station associates to count people at the door and let people in according to their social distance policy.  

The drop in business during this time should support that person coming from within the store's current staffing.  But if the store is still busy, you will need to hire someone.  If that 1-2 people is the difference between opening and closing, then do it.  Businesses shouldn't be concerned with making a ton of money right now, breaking even while getting your team the hours they need to stay afloat needs to be the goal.  

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 minutes ago, mission27 said:

There has to be a balance though, airplane travel is a critical part of many people's work and lives and formally discouraging 'non-essential' travel indefinitely puts these people in a very bad spot.  Hotels and airlines are not going to operate critical infrastructure if everyone is being encouraged to stay home and people are going to feel stuck between a rock and a hard place of wanting to live their lives vs. not being ostracized for ignoring guidelines.  The economic impact of no travel or tourism for 18 months alone would be massive.  Grounding non-essential travel alone wipes out a huge % of GDP and puts a lot of people out of work.

Personally, I think encouraging or requiring people to wear face masks in the airport and on planes, other distancing and cleaning measures airlines have put in place, not letting sick people fly, telling older and vulnerable people to reconsider travel and aggressive testing and tracing are probably the right way to go.  Some people will choose not to fly but many people will decide to take the risk because they have places to be in order to live their lives.

At the end of the day almost all travel is non-essential to one degree or another.  You could hold that meeting over the phone, skip that wedding or funeral, go another month without seeing a fiance or girlfriend, not meet up with your friend or not take that vacation.  At some point people need to be allowed to live their lives.

I hear ya, I just booked a vacation yesterday for the end of May.

We had planned an all inclusive in the DR, but with this nonsense canceled that and booked a cabin in the Redneck Riviera (Smokies).  We’ll have an isolated cabin, plenty of hiking, the ability to “get away” while also attempting to be socially conscious.  The DR can wait a year or two.

With the hospitality industry they’re going to have to establish guidelines for pool use/capacity, shared spaces, etc.as well.

Again, not saying this can’t be done, but we can’t just open things up to business as usual plus an extra bottle of hand sanitizer at the front desk. Comprehensive measures need to be put in place for every industry.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

I think people will take it more seriously now than a month ago.

People were social distancing while protesting

I’m sure some were.

Others..

 
 

 

[mission27]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Again, not saying this can’t be done, but we can’t just open things up to business as usual plus an extra bottle of hand sanitizer at the front desk. Comprehensive measures need to be put in place for every industry.

Yep, its going to require a lot of thought.  Airlines and hotels were actually at the forefront of this because they are some of the most at risk businesses and at the same time some of the only customer facing businesses that are staying open (at far reduced capacity) in a lot of cases.  So I do think they'll be ready when its appropriate to lift guidance against non-essential travel but clearly it needs to be done the right way.

BTW, I think we will also need a higher tolerance for infections without shutting everything down.  If we are going to make everyone quarantine who went through an airport with a COVID case, or make people quarantine for 14 days after crossing an international border, or shut down an entire hotel because of 1 COVID case its not going to work.  That made sense in February when we were still in strict containment.  Its just not going to practical anymore until there is a vaccine.

[naptownskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I hear ya, I just booked a vacation yesterday for the end of May.

We had planned an all inclusive in the DR, but with this nonsense canceled that and booked a cabin in the Redneck Riviera (Smokies).  We’ll have an isolated cabin, plenty of hiking, the ability to “get away” while also attempting to be socially conscious.  The DR can wait a year or two.

With the hospitality industry they’re going to have to establish guidelines for pool use/capacity, shared spaces, etc.as well.

Again, not saying this can’t be done, but we can’t just open things up to business as usual plus an extra bottle of hand sanitizer at the front desk. Comprehensive measures need to be put in place for every industry.

I go to a place in West Virginia every year to unplug in a sense.  While at it's core, you can be socially distanced, a lot of their events, especially in the summer time, are designed to happen with groups of people.  Obviously, they can adapt, but their biggest hurdle is food.  Everything is served buffet line or family style, and everyone in one dining room.  It's a lot of people in one place.  I think they do something like splitting service (instead of one hour long serve, there are two 45 minute services you are assigned to the room can clear out) and no more buffet style.  But they also have games like shuffleboard, tennis, ping pong and other games that people can play, as well as clubs you can borrow for golf.  Families will now have to bring their own stuff, which is usually what I do anyway.  

Biggest thing for hotels is going to be how you handle elevators, and how you disinfect rooms once people leave.  

I didn't even think about pools, but whether it's indoor or outdoor, that is absolutely an issue.  I remember going to both as a kid and always being on top of people.  Vacation beaches are the same way.  

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

13 minutes ago, mission27 said:

Yeah I agree

With all of this stuff, putting in place common sense distancing and cleaning and restricting how many can participate is FAR preferable imo to completely prohibiting it for up to 18 months or longer, which is the most extreme approach 

Sure for most of us movie theaters are very non-essential, but if you are someone who loves going to the movies or works in the film industry or works at a movie theater, closing movie theaters for 18 months is going to have a major impact on your life

so the industry needs to get creative.

the funny part is the answer is an old school option, drive ins, especially for the next few months when weather is permissive.

13 minutes ago, mission27 said:

Sure for many people getting on an airplane is a rare occurrence but for some of us we live our lives between multiple cities, states, and even countries and being restricted from traveling for 18 months would be a huge deal from a personal and professional perspective 

I think its easy to sit here and say XYZ is non-essential and we can sacrifice it indefinitely when XYZ isn't something thats a big part of your life or work.  Its harder for people who are directly impacted 

I’m with you, but just because you like something and really want to do it doesn’t justify potentially negatively impacting your community.

The virus doesn’t care what we want, what we miss doing, what our hobbies are. It’s an unfortunate truth, but a truth nonetheless. Without significant changes to their current business practices, many business shouldn’t reopen.  
 

Im really curious to see how this impacts things like concerts, sporting events, etc.  100k people packed into a stadium seems like a disaster tbh.  Even school in the fall is questionable imo.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

 

3 minutes ago, mission27 said:

 

BTW, I think we will also need a higher tolerance for infections without shutting everything down.  If we are going to make everyone quarantine who went through an airport with a COVID case, or make people quarantine for 14 days after crossing an international border, or shut down an entire hotel because of 1 COVID case its not going to work.  That made sense in February when we were still in strict containment.  Its just not going to practical anymore until there is a vaccine.

the concern here is how far do you let those things go before you’re being reactionary to an outbreak?  It’s a fine line and we’re in uncharted waters in many ways.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

 

5 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I didn't even think about pools, but whether it's indoor or outdoor, that is absolutely an issue.  I remember going to both as a kid and always being on top of people.  Vacation beaches are the same way.  

Yep.  Here in Ohio there’s a small island in Lake Erie called Put In Bay.  Big party town in the summer, especially with college aged kids.

 
 

This is what the pools look like on weekends, Memorial Day, etc.  

Im sure every state has a similar area where young people go and do dumb stuff and have a blast.  These are the areas that are most concerning to me as summer nears as that demographic takes more risks than others and none of them are locals, they’re all coming from neighboring communities or states.

[DoleINGout]

12 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

the funny part is the answer is an old school option, drive ins

 

[naptownskinsfan]

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

 

Yep.  Here in Ohio there’s a small island in Lake Erie called Put In Bay.  Big party town in the summer, especially with college aged kids.

 
 

This is what the pools look like on weekends, Memorial Day, etc.  

Im sure every state has a similar area where young people go and do dumb stuff and have a blast.  These are the areas that are most concerning to me as summer nears as that demographic takes more risks than others and none of them are locals, they’re all coming from neighboring communities or states.

That is how I remember the private pool we had a membership to in the summer.  They didn't care how many memberships they sold or guests you could bring.  

At least for places/towns like that, they survive the other parts of the year, so even without all of that revenue coming from the summer time, they should be able to make it.  

[mission27]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

the concern here is how far do you let those things go before you’re being reactionary to an outbreak?  It’s a fine line and we’re in uncharted waters in many ways.

Definitely a tough question

You've gotta balance what is practical with maximum public health benefit

My personal take would be:

- With plane travel, there are realistically going to be people with COVID going through most major airports most days, as I'm sure was the case every day in January and February and early March around the world.  To the extent these things can be tracked it should be publicly reported and airlines should follow up with customers so they are aware of this.  If you were on a plane with someone who tested positive, you should be informed.  If you were sitting very close to that person, you should probably be encouraged to get tested or at the very least monitor for symptoms.

- International travel should be restricted for those who have recently been to hot spots as it was most of Q1 this year.  Those who have to travel from hot spots for essential reasons should be restricted to nationals and should quarantine 14 days.  For non-hot spot travel we should screen for symptoms.  If it becomes practical to do quick testing on a massive scale, maybe you give folks instant tests before they get on an international flight.  Obviously this would need to be coordinated between countries and initially would be more practical for certain places than others (i.e. would be very easy to do this for US-Canada flights and Schengen area flights, but less easy for large transcon flights between countries without such close travel arrangements).  Ultimately though, I don't think an international flight between two countries with similar # of active cases per capita is any more risky than a domestic flight within either one of those countries ,and I think borders need to re-open as soon as possible.

- Hotels are tricky for a bunch of reason.  I would probably apply the same standards to hotels that are currently being applied to more 'essential' facilities.  If 1 person gets sick at an Amazon warehouse, they dont shut down the whole warehouse, nor would it make sense to shut down an entire hotel and quarantine hundreds of people because of 1 case.  People are inevitably going to come in contact with 1 person who has COVID in their day to day life once this is lifted.  But if it starts to become a cluster with many cases, you need to take more aggressive action.

[mission27]

At the end of the day I dont think staying in a hotel will be a huge risk. 

There is some risk that someone who stayed in the room before you had COVID and the room wasn't properly cleaned, we'll have to be as careful as possible with that. 

But if you check into a hotel and then go stay in your room, you probably aren't having much contact with the staff or others outside of your traveling party.  The bars should be subject to the same restrictions as non-hotel bars.  Room service is not a particular risk compared to any other way you'd get food. 

Elevators are a problem for office buildings and apartments too, not just hotels