Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[ramssuperbowl99]

2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I believe the current working theory is that Bill Gates funded the research in the Wuhan Lab that ultimately created the virus, and he did it so that it would lead to everyone being microchipped via 5G or something like that. I don't even know, it's so dumb.

But with regards to the mask thing, the current working theory is that wearing a mask isn't about being healthy, but about being controlled by the government. And this theory makes sense because....reasons.

What's funny about it is, I still don't know if the virus is "real" or "fake" even when you explain it. 

[MacReady]

2 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I'm rejecting the sincerity of your argument.

That’s fine.  You’re right to question it.  I am not a good person.  You’re wrong, but you’re right to think you’re right.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

What's funny about it is, I still don't know if the virus is "real" or "fake" even when you explain it. 

It's Schrodinger's Virus. It's both extremely real and created by China, and also a hoax engineered to interfere with the 2020 Election.

[skywindO2]

6 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

But with regards to the mask thing, the current working theory is that wearing a mask isn't about being healthy, but about being controlled by the government. And this theory makes sense because....reasons.

The scanners secretly installed everywhere to scan people's eyes for identification and tracking purposes are thrown off by everyone's pearly whites. Rather than reconfigure the software, the big bad government faked a global pandemic to get people to cover their mouths. 

[MacReady]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Sure, I mean that makes sense but I don't believe that's going to change someone's mindset about anything moving forward, nor do I believe that would get that person to wear a mask in the first place. How does telling them they're right, which would reinforce their false belief that wearing a mask is bad (to put it VERY simply), ultimately lead them to wearing a mask? You'd basically just have to contradict yourself repeatedly lol

In my experience it just takes a nudge. 

When this first started, I wanted to wear a mask to Walmart, but I thought I would look stupid. 

As soon as it became socially acceptable to wear one, I haven't stopped - and won't stop - wearing one. 

For some people it just requires an extra nudge.  The cousin I referred to wasn't 100% against wearing a mask.  If she was, what I said wouldn't have changed her mind. 

I think with a lot of people who don't wear one they aren't wearing one because they haven't gotten that little nudge, and an aggressive nudge that insults them will entrench them more into not wearing one than a humble, empathetic approach will. 

 

[Shanedorf]

from Shower Thoughts:

The goal of wearing masks.... is to not have to wear masks.

The case for mandatory mask wearing in public is stronger than the case for wearing pants in public

Humanity is smart enough to solve all of its problems, but is too stupid to actually do it.

and speaking of empathy:

There is no greater moment of empathy and understanding as a man seeing another man get hit in the balls.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

24 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

In my experience it just takes a nudge. 

When this first started, I wanted to wear a mask to Walmart, but I thought I would look stupid. 

As soon as it became socially acceptable to wear one, I haven't stopped - and won't stop - wearing one. 

For some people it just requires an extra nudge.  The cousin I referred to wasn't 100% against wearing a mask.  If she was, what I said wouldn't have changed her mind. 

I think with a lot of people who don't wear one they aren't wearing one because they haven't gotten that little nudge, and an aggressive nudge that insults them will entrench them more into not wearing one than a humble, empathetic approach will. 

 

From first-hand experience, my cousin, who has elderly parents, literally made a Facebook post saying he nor his family (which includes one 6 year old child, and one infant girl) would NEVER wear a mask in public (can't remember his exact reasons, but it's the usual looney-tunes "control" nonsense). He even pointed out he had elderly parents (who regularly babysit for his children) and small kids. He even pointed out that he and his entire family was their hands and cover their mouths when they cough (ironic), but would NEVER wear a mask.

His post received a ton of his friends agreeing with him and encouraging him that it was all a hoax by people of the opposite political aisle. However, when I and other members of our family (some of whom are either immunocompromised or have parents/children who are) told him why he should wear a mask (mainly, THINK ABOUT YOUR PARENTS),  he deleted his post and told everyone he just wanted to focus on posting funny pictures.

Keep in mind, every day before and after that, he does nothing but post on Facebook trashing Washington State's governor, posting garbage political memes or commenting borderline racist things. Oh, and he's also never worn a mask since then.

Maybe both of our experiences are both just anecdotal and different things work for different people. I, for one, just see no value in reinforcing someone's obviously wrong beliefs IF those beliefs could directly lead to me or my family members dying as a result.

[animaltested]

Refusing to mask up is the equivalent of driving drunk.

Only difference is refusing to wear a mask could also kill / cause long-term damage to the contact persons loved ones AS WELL.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

7 minutes ago, animaltested said:

Refusing to mask up is the equivalent of driving drunk.

Only difference is refusing to wear a mask could also kill / cause long-term damage to the contact persons loved ones AS WELL.

Even further than that. One person who doesn't wear a mask could infect and kill thousands of people, if not more. 

[MacReady]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

From first-hand experience, my cousin, who has elderly parents, literally made a Facebook post saying he nor his family (which includes one 6 year old child, and one infant girl) would NEVER wear a mask in public (can't remember his exact reasons, but it's the usual looney-tunes "control" nonsense). He even pointed out he had elderly parents (who regularly babysit for his children) and small kids. He even pointed out that he and his entire family was their hands and cover their mouths when they cough (ironic), but would NEVER wear a mask.

His post received a ton of his friends agreeing with him and encouraging him that it was all a hoax by people of the opposite political aisle. However, when I and other members of our family (some of whom are either immunocompromised or have parents/children who are) told him why he should wear a mask (mainly, THINK ABOUT YOUR PARENTS),  he deleted his post and told everyone he just wanted to focus on posting funny pictures.

Keep in mind, every day before and after that, he does nothing but post on Facebook trashing Washington State's governor, posting garbage political memes or commenting borderline racist things. Oh, and he's also never worn a mask since then.

Maybe both of our experiences are both just anecdotal and different things work for different people. I, for one, just see no value in reinforcing someone's obviously wrong beliefs IF those beliefs could directly lead to me or my family members dying as a result.

Yeah, there are some people like your cousin, but don't you think maybe him deleting the post and saying he just wants to focus on posting funny pictures might have been him walking back his statements a little bit? 

It's like Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader honestly.  There is good in these people.  They CAN be reached.  He probably felt a little attacked by the rest of your family pointing out how wrong he was, and it's possible you telling him to think of his parents could have planted that seed of doubt. 

Then again, maybe your cousin is just an idiot that can't be reached (no offense). 

Either way, I can guarantee there's one way to keep him on the anti-mask train: Condescending animosity, insults and hate. 

In your cousin's specific case, follow the thread would be my advice.  Ask him what the government stands to gain by making people wear a mask.  If he says control, ask why that matters if all they're doing is controlling you wearing a mask.  Just keep following that thread and see where it leads and keep asking questions and do it with an attitude and temperament that comes across as wanting to learn his perspective and I bet you'll make some headway. 

Chances are if he's like most conspiracy theorists out there, he's afraid of some snowball effect.  First it's wearing masks, then it's forced vaccinations and such.  If that's the case, suggest he complies until it's something he cannot comply with, and THEN make his stand.  Try to get him to pick his battles. 

 

[ramssuperbowl99]

19 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

From first-hand experience, my cousin, who has elderly parents, literally made a Facebook post saying he nor his family (which includes one 6 year old child, and one infant girl) would NEVER wear a mask in public (can't remember his exact reasons, but it's the usual looney-tunes "control" nonsense). He even pointed out he had elderly parents (who regularly babysit for his children) and small kids. He even pointed out that he and his entire family was their hands and cover their mouths when they cough (ironic), but would NEVER wear a mask.

His post received a ton of his friends agreeing with him and encouraging him that it was all a hoax by people of the opposite political aisle. However, when I and other members of our family (some of whom are either immunocompromised or have parents/children who are) told him why he should wear a mask (mainly, THINK ABOUT YOUR PARENTS),  he deleted his post and told everyone he just wanted to focus on posting funny pictures.

Keep in mind, every day before and after that, he does nothing but post on Facebook trashing Washington State's governor, posting garbage political memes or commenting borderline racist things. Oh, and he's also never worn a mask since then.

Maybe both of our experiences are both just anecdotal and different things work for different people. I, for one, just see no value in reinforcing someone's obviously wrong beliefs IF those beliefs could directly lead to me or my family members dying as a result.

Your experiences are virtually identical to mine. I have an entire side of my family that act like that, and I've heard it all before. 

If someone has so warped and distorted their reality in this search of political high ground that when the world says "hey, lots of people are going to die so put a mask on" they hear "WE'RE COMING FOR YOUR CANDIDATE", you have to accept that politics is going to infect every single topic of conversation with them. That person is willfully lost, and the first step back to normalcy is them realizing that. 

Until that person is willing to admit it, they're gone and there's nothing any reasonable person can do.

Edited July 14, 2020 by ramssuperbowl99

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

3 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Yeah, there are some people like your cousin, but don't you think maybe him deleting the post and saying he just wants to focus on posting funny pictures might have been him walking back his statements a little bit? 

I thought so at first, until I read (this is a reply he sent to someone commenting on his "I deleted the mask post" post:

Quote

I hear ya. I see what’s being posted and going on. People know where I stand with all of it and my mind will never change. Kerry, your a wise man and I love reading all you post!!! Hopefully we have a hoops season this year

And then a week later he had a full on pool party at his parents' house with all of his kids and their friends. Then they had another one during 4th of July weekend. No masks anywhere in sight. So, yeah. Nothing changed. He just didn't want to deal with being called on his BS

3 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Then again, maybe your cousin is just an idiot that can't be reached (no offense). 

This is literally it.

3 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Either way, I can guarantee there's one way to keep him on the anti-mask train: Condescending animosity, insults and hate. 

Nobody did any of that. I can't remember what I specifically said because the post was deleted, but nobody was condescending or anything, they just tried to get him to empathize and think about others. What he does is ALWAYS deflect and say "I just want to be positive!" and the stuff I posted above. He doesn't approach any situation with an open mind. He has his beliefs and they will not change - which is strange to "believe" you can't wear a mask. I don't know why that would be something you won't budge on, but idk.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Your experiences are virtually identical to mine. I have an entire side of my family that act like that, and I've heard it all before. 

If someone has so warped and distorted their reality in this search of political high ground that when the world says "hey, lots of people are going to die so put a mask on" they hear "WE'RE COMING FOR YOUR CANDIDATE", you have to accept that politics is going to infect every single topic of conversation with them. That person is willfully lost, and the first step is back to society is realizing they're lost. 

Until that person is willing to admit it, they're gone and there's nothing any reasonable person can do.

Well yeah, that's why I unfollowed him on Facebook years ago. I only saw the mask post because my Fiancee told me about it, and I couldn't NOT respond because his decision to not a wear a mask directly impacts my Aunt, Uncle, Sister (who has 1 kidney and goes to dialysis 3x a week), and extended family back home. Otherwise I would've ignored it just like I ignore everything else he posts.

Funny though, this situation is now political because certain people chose to make it that way by refusing to listen to scientists and experts. This could have all been avoided EASILY with just coherent and consistent messaging from the top down. But I guess that's just too much to ask for these days.

[MacReady]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Nobody did any of that. I can't remember what I specifically said because the post was deleted, but nobody was condescending or anything, they just tried to get him to empathize and think about others. What he does is ALWAYS deflect and say "I just want to be positive!" and the stuff I posted above. He doesn't approach any situation with an open mind. He has his beliefs and they will not change - which is strange to "believe" you can't wear a mask. I don't know why that would be something you won't budge on, but idk.

Yeah, probably no hope for him, but that's the way it is with some.  Just don't lose sight of the fact that he's your cousin like I almost did would be my advice as you keep a healthy distance from him.  The pandemic and risk will end eventually, but the fact that he's your family will not.  Like I've admitted before, before all of this I was the last person in the world that should be preaching empathy and sympathy, but I think my advice right now on this particular issue is good advice. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

4 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Well yeah, that's why I unfollowed him on Facebook years ago. I only saw the mask post because my Fiancee told me about it, and I couldn't NOT respond because his decision to not a wear a mask directly impacts my Aunt, Uncle, Sister (who has 1 kidney and goes to dialysis 3x a week), and extended family back home. Otherwise I would've ignored it just like I ignore everything else he posts.

Funny though, this situation is now political because certain people chose to make it that way by refusing to listen to scientists and experts. This could have all been avoided EASILY with just coherent and consistent messaging from the top down. But I guess that's just too much to ask for these days.

I feel all of this. The most frustrating part to me is that no matter how much you pick your battles, it still feels like you're losing because they will politicize everything. If it wasn't going to be COVID, it would be something else.