Bears Downs

[CKSteeler]

Tomlin is a football coach. I'm not going to condemn him for how he navigated this weekend. I say that as someone who thinks the entire idea of kneeling for the anthem to protest anything is stupid. Because it is. It's stupid social signalling and a piss poor form of protest. The point of a protest - a well conceived and meaningful one - is to convince people who don't agree with you to see your point and the hardliners to feel shame. It's to make them sympathetic to you and to reveal how ludicrous the reality is. We see precious little of that in modern protests. If you think police brutality is an issue, find a way to demonstrate that which doesn't provoke hostility from well over half the country. There's a real silent majority angry over the means of protest here. You can be right and go about it the wrong way and objectively that is what has happened going back to last year. It creates a hornets nest that was way too easy to kick up politically.  I've avoided stating my own opinions on causes here, but despite how the media is portraying it, I think it's going to be a big win for Trump as well as a favorable distraction. That's how poorly thought out the notion of kneeling for the anthem was.

The notion of staying in the locker room was ill-conceived, but left to the players for better or worse. I just don't know how anyone, to include Tomlin, could be surprised by what Villy ended up doing. And even if surprised, they should have bit their tongue entirely or developed a better strategy in the aftermath of the game. I'd figure some PR person employed by the Steelers making six figures would have been working on that as the story started to break and would have had talking points before anyone went in front of a camera. But apparently not. Tomlin has enough on his plate failing to prepare for the Bears. That seems to be his mindset, and I don't have an issue with it.

Inside the locker room, I doubt there are any permanent scars if anything at all right now. But it's a blackeye for the organization at the moment.

And yes - most vets and a lot of really diehard old time fans are angry over all of this to the point. The NFL's decision makers and the media in general live in a bubble to not see that.

The only way I'll really be angry at individuals here is if it's reported on that they are actually angry at Villy for what he did. I'm giving Tomlin the benefit of the doubt at the moment. Heat of the moment after an ugly loss, and didn't have a prepared response. Coach speak broke down.

[43M]

Tomlin somewhat did come out and say he was disappointed AV didnt go along with the team.   

James Harrison said awhile back he would be angry with anyone on his team who did NOT stand....and then he backhandedly chastised AV for not going along with the team.

And now, AV seems to think he has to apologize for what he did, when he was the only one who did the right thing.

Im not going to bash Tomlin or any of the players....but honestly, I am sad today, because I dont feel the same way about this team after yesterday, and may never feel the same way again....because the NFL is so far up its own arse anymore.  its not about football anymore.  Its about pushing their agenda and making money.   The making money part I dont have a problem with if they are providing the sport.....but the sport itself is getting worse (well, at least the NFL version of it), and now, they are more concerned with pushing certain messages than delivering a quality on field product.

I dont want to get into a huge debate about this because political talk is not really allowed on here, but the bottom line is, yesterday really cast a dark cloud  over the team and league Ive loved for over 25 years, and I dont think there is anything that WILL happen that will make me feel the same way again.     They will continue virtue signaling and pushing their political views down the throats of football fans....who are probably watching football in an attempt to forget about the issues in the world for a few hours....but now the NFL is fusing their political views with the sport....and IMO, thats going to hurt the NFL's slumping ratings even more.  

[August4th]

wonder how many people who are disappointed with the steelers will feel this way come January of any yr the steelers are in the postseason...

[CKSteeler]

I suspect quite a few, actually. Because this is far different for many than the typical let down by a sports team. It's putting conflicting priorities against one another. I've seen people who were completely unwavering fans for decades become angry or apathetic about the team over this. The hog is being slaughtered as we speak, I suspect.

[August4th]

3 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

I suspect quite a few, actually. Because this is far different for many than the typical let down by a sports team. It's putting conflicting priorities against one another. I've seen people who were completely unwavering fans for decades become angry or apathetic about the team over this. The hog is being slaughtered as we speak, I suspect.

this event just happened a little over 24 hrs ago and is still part of the news cycle. I seriously doubt any "die-hard" fan will stop watching the steelers forever over this ..props if they do tho(for sticking to their word)

[CKSteeler]

You might be right. Might be. But I've never seen anger over sports like this myself. It's pretty unique. The NFL was already putting an inferior product on the field at the worst time.

[Chieferific]

18 minutes ago, August4th said:

wonder how many people who are disappointed with the steelers will feel this way come January of any yr the steelers are in the postseason...

I can't speak for others but It will always bother me. Maybe not enough to completely shut them off but it will always bother me. 

[August4th]

14 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

You might be right. Might be. But I've never seen anger over sports like this myself. It's pretty unique. The NFL was already putting an inferior product on the field at the worst time.

watch for the NFL to start marketing towards fixing this for both sides.. already see the commercials

[43M]

57 minutes ago, August4th said:

this event just happened a little over 24 hrs ago and is still part of the news cycle. I seriously doubt any "die-hard" fan will stop watching the steelers forever over this ..props if they do tho(for sticking to their word)

Some will stick with it....for sure.

Some wont....which is why Im not saying that I will, because as upset as I am, Im not so offended that I can just give up watching a team Ive loved most of my life so quickly.   But my interest in the league has already been in steady decline for a few years.    And after this, I can honestly say that I dont feel the same about the team.   They crossed a line they never shouldve crossed.     I dont have a major issue with someone having a different political viewpoint, but people dont like having political viewpoints shoved down their throats.  Its bad enough watching the news push the same agenda day after day, but people watch football to get away from that stuff.   People want a few hours where they can kick back with a beer and escape all the political drama, and now, the NFL is forcefeeding it to us too.    No one tunes in to watch entitled manbabies and over-privileged millionaire athletes virtue signal and protest social justice causes, especially when its based on a largely false narrative.   We tune in to watch them play football....and now that is getting overshadowed because the NFL wants to make a statement.....but unfortunately, not honoring the flag or the National Anthem is not sending the statement the NFL thinks its sending.  

And Tomlin directly said that they didnt want to come out because they didnt want to participate the political dogfight thats going on....so his moronic idea was to keep his entire team from honoring this country's national anthem.....which is arguably even worse than kneeling on the sidelines.    

Now, maybe Tomlin isnt anti-American....I dont believe that that is the case.  

He IS, however...a complete idiot for not being able to foresee what message this really sent.  

Hell, that seems to be Tomlin's issue with football as well....he lacks the foresight and sagacity to be a truly great coach.

Im honestly sick of all of this.   I honestly might not even watch the game this weekend.    We will see how I feel come Sunday.     Between what they did, and all the sports shows primarily talking politics....I was so disgusted with everything about Sunday's football broadcasts.  

 

[jebrick]

You do realize that no NFL team was on the field during the Anthem until 2009 when the Department of Defense and the National Guard PAID the NFL to trot the players on the field.  Wrapping the flag around a popular sport is kind of crappy.  Trying to unwaveringly fawn over a anthem or flag is something I would expect from North Korea or Russia. Vets I know would not do that but all of them support the players' rights to do it.

I think there are worst ways to protest.  The players are not turning their backs on the flag.  They are saying the country is distressed.

I also think this was a major distraction for the preparation for the game.

[warfelg]

I couldn’t care less tbh. 

 

Two other teams rams didn’t come out and no one is talking about them. And a players political views mean little to how I feel about the team. I care more about the uniform and the logo on it than the player in it. 

[JLambert58]

I normally don't concern myself with drama and arguing for the sake of arguing, but I'll chime in on this one, because as 43M has said, it's putting a dark cloud over the organization.

The Steelers have been my team for 40 years and that isn't going to change one iota.  But the idea of the whole team not coming out for the anthem is baffling to me.  I understand that Tomlin wanted to create solidarity among the players, but ultimately, it seems, he created the opposite.  In general, I have no problem with people protesting injustice of any kind.  Strong countries are built upon dissent and not culturally forced obedience or conforming to etiquette.    But to me, standing for the anthem is a sign of respect for our country and the people that built and sustained it, flawed though it may be.  I don't see it as some kind of requirement of the "love it or leave it" variety.  If you want to sit for it, you can.  Fortunately we live in a country where you have the right to do so without arrest or harassment.  (mostly)  

However, for a billion dollar, nationally followed team to do so collectively is in very poor taste imo.  It made the team, the franchise, ownership and coaches look bad.  Bad choice.  Like going for 2 in the first quarter.  (sorry, couldn't resist )   Is it forgivable?  Yes, of course.  But is it a black eye on the franchise?  For sure.  

[warfelg]

Let's just say, AV didn't go out as far and a bunch of guys were right next to him....would you feel the same?

 

I know I would.  Like I said, I don't really care what happens.  I have my own views on all of this stuff and I'm not going to let what some player does or doesn't do.  And frankly is the President didn't say anything then nothing would have happened.  Seahawks and Titans never took the field, so why is it the steelers that have a blackeye for not taking the field and those teams don't?

 

What's interesting is before 2009 it was actually common for players to be in the lockerroom during the anthem.  The NFL is actually paid to get those guys out there.

 

Anyways.  This doesn't change anything for me.  They had a good intention of what they were trying to do and if it weren't for a mistake then this wouldn't be a topic of discussion.  I'm tired that we have to talk about this crap and we can't talk about the crap on the field because of how divided and decisive this country has become.  Democrat/Republican, Black/white, straight/gay, man/woman....whatever.  We have more going on and football/baseball/basketball/hockey should be an escape and to see it be politicized because a politician decided to run his mouth leaves me with a poor taste with where it started over how people reacted.  

The burning of jerseys, clothes, stuff like that is appalling to me.  There are people in Puerto Rico, Florida Keys, Houston who literally have nothing and the least you could do is send that stuff down there.  No if you are burning jersey's you want attention.  I don't want someone who's going to burn a jersey for attention to be a fan of this team anyways.  Fan is short for Fanatic, and you stick with the team in good and bad.

[warfelg]

15 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

But to me, standing for the anthem is a sign of respect for our country and the people that built and sustained it, flawed though it may be.  I see it as some kind of requirement of the "love it or leave it" variety.  If you want to sit for it, you can.  Fortunately we live in a country where you have the right to do so without arrest or harassment.  (mostly)  

FWIW, there's massive twitter threads of what you can and can't do with the flag.  Kneeling isn't on that list, but holding it horizontally is.  Just like using it as part of a sports uniform or  a costume.  Can't use it for advertising.  Can't use it for disposable items.  Can't put it on clothing.  If you're going to wear it on your shoulder it should be stars forwards and I've seen people sew it on the other way.

 

Anyways, today I feel bad for the team.  Say what you will or whatever, but they wanted to protect players that wanted to protest.  I like what Ben and Cam said yesterday.  It was a late decision because Tomlin said 1 thing:  Everyone does the same thing.  I think what they wanted to do was fine.  And I'm fine with AV just asking to be up front so he can see the flag.  I'm ok with Ben and Cam both saying they wanted to move forward, but are so used to staying still.  What I'm not ok with is how people are reacting to it.  Mistakes were made.  So what.

 

As for what happened on the field I got one massive down that I don't think anyone has talked about:

Communication.  This team isn't talking on the field.  I don't see the OL talking all that much anymore.  There's no one on the defense that can talk people through where to be.  This team needs some vocal leaders when it comes to play.

[August4th]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

 

Anyways.  This doesn't change anything for me.  They had a good intention of what they were trying to do and if it weren't for a mistake then this wouldn't be a topic of discussion.  I'm tired that we have to talk about this crap and we can't talk about the crap on the field because of how divided and decisive this country has become.  Democrat/Republican, Black/white, straight/gay, man/woman....whatever.  We have more going on and football/baseball/basketball/hockey should be an escape and to see it be politicized because a politician decided to run his mouth leaves me with a poor taste with where it started over how people reacted.  

 

it's sad... dude is using a serous topic as a political distraction and people don't realize it.. we are getting played ... this kneeling on the sideline story was actually dying out before this week