The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[BackinBlack]

5 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

You not getting the point. If carr said I'll take a discount there is no reason not to pay him at a discount rate. No matter if raiders can afford all those players or not. Why would any good business or team say no need to take a discount instead we will make it harder on ourselves to make it work. There is no logic behind that. Your just taking carr at his word but the logic behind it don't make sense. 

And kc can pay who they want cause they have a qb and coach who don't need a loaded roster to win. They can pay 7 or 8  players great and fill the rest of roster with cheap guys or draft picks and still be competitive and win. Raiders haven't had that luxury. 

ok thats great. but the point I was refuting was that we couldnt afford Mack because of Carrs contract. 

IE you cant jump into a conversation I was having, about a different subject (we cant afford Mack cause of Carrs contract), and tell me I was missing the point. When you dont address the point at all 

Yet we were able to pay; AB 3 year 50 mil, Tyrell Williams 4 year 44 mil, Trent brown 4y/ 66mil . 
It literally shows we couldve signed Coop, Mack and Gabe IMO

That is what I was saying. Nothing more. 

but also, you have no idea what some team wouldve offered Carr on open market. 
Something no one thinks about, but he wouldve been paid more then we offered 100% in my opinion at the time. 
Which is literally the definition of a discount lol

Edited February 17, 2022 by BackinBlack

[MrOaktown_56]

57 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

It’s very simple logic and Carr is not dumb. We are not wrapping 3 players up in 100M total per year. If we sign Adams, Carr knows Crosby is not staying past this year. Literally, common sense. Reaching….? It’s the complete opposite. If you think Carr thinks we can have all three, you and him both must be the most naive human beings to ever exist. 

Other teams are doing it and winning. You can pay stars. If you manage the cap well and don't overpay mediocre players.

[BobbyPhil1781]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Other teams are doing it and winning. You can pay stars. If you manage the cap well and don't overpay mediocre players.

Don't remind me of those days.....

[dante9876]

9 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

ok thats great. but the point I was refuting was that we couldnt afford Mack because of Carrs contract. 

IE you cant jump into a conversation I was having, about a different subject (we cant afford Mack cause of Carrs contract), and tell me I was missing the point. When you dont address the point at all 

Yet we were able to pay; AB 3 year 50 mil, Tyrell Williams 4 year 44 mil, Trent brown 4y/ 66mil . 
It literally shows we couldve signed Coop, Mack and Gabe IMO

That is what I was saying. Nothing more. 

but also, you have no idea what some team wouldve offered Carr on open market. 
Something no one thinks about, but he wouldve been paid more then we offered 100% in my opinion at the time. 
Which is literally the definition of a discount lol

Yeah ok. We made him highest paid qb in league but he took a discount. Ok bruh. If you say so. Mahommes and Allen took discounts to cause I'm sure some team would have made them the highest above the highest paid qb. All these qbs that get paid are taking discounts I guess. SMH. 

 

[G]

I don't want any 20 million dollar receiver.  Carr spreads the ball around so don't need a #1 until were moving on from Carr. I'd pay Crosby but he's not in the top tier IMO. He might be next year but not now. He lead the NFL in pressures with another good/great pass rusher opposite him. His rookie year he had a great sack to pressure ratio. I'm not paying Crosby more than 25 until after proving in on our new defense. Carr, Crosby, Waller and Renfrow all need more $$$ so I'd low ball on the table now but all also have trade value. Would rather keep them all but a 'team' has to be assembled. 

[BackinBlack]

8 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

Yeah ok. We made him highest paid qb in league but he took a discount. Ok bruh. If you say so. Mahommes and Allen took discounts to cause I'm sure some team would have made them the highest above the highest paid qb. All these qbs that get paid are taking discounts I guess. SMH. 

 

Literally never said he took a discount; you entered a conversation i was having with someone else were I said Carr wanted to make sure his contract we could still afford, Mack Gabe and Cooper. 
We then signed 3 other players to massive contracts.
So I was saying if we signed those 3, it couldve worked out with our 3 . . . 

1 more time to make it clear; all i was saying, before you even jumped in; if we could sign AB and TB, we couldve signed Mack. 
No need to talk discount, Carrs contract was done, we had money to sign AB and TB, we couldve signed Mack?

This was actually wild to me, well done and cheers man!

[BackinBlack]

Also coming off that season Car just had a career year;
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/quarterback/start-2017/limit-200/

He and Stafford both signed extensions that same offseason;
Player A had a 12m signing bonus
Player B had a 50m signing bonus

Player A had 40 mil guaranteed
Player B had 60 mil guaranteed

Player A practical guarantee 70mil
Player B practical guarantee  92 mil,

Total A - 125
Totbal B - 135

So F it, Carr did take a discount. He was coming off a massive season with a ton of hype and took significantly less then Stafford. 

Literally same year, same length of contract, similar preceived QBs (esp after 2016), and a thin QB FA market. 

Yikes, I am glad I didnt just enter a random conversation, and keep telling the guy he was missing the point of a conversation I wasnt even in LOL LOL

[dante9876]

5 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Literally never said he took a discount; you entered a conversation i was having with someone else were I said Carr wanted to make sure his contract we could still afford, Mack Gabe and Cooper. 
We then signed 3 other players to massive contracts.
So I was saying if we signed those 3, it couldve worked out with our 3 . . . 

1 more time to make it clear; all i was saying, before you even jumped in; if we could sign AB and TB, we couldve signed Mack. 
No need to talk discount, Carrs contract was done, we had money to sign AB and TB, we couldve signed Mack?

This was actually wild to me, well done and cheers man!

You don't even remember what you typing at this point. You literally said I 100% believe he would had be paid more on the open market at the time. That is the definition of a discount. You just said that. What are you even talking about? Lolol. 

And to your so called point. The statement I quoted to begin with was you saying he wanted a contract to fit all those guys. My point was it don't make sense for them to pay him what they did if he actually said that to the team.  I was refuting your evidence to your main point. Not your main point. 

[dante9876]

5 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Also coming off that season Car just had a career year;
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/quarterback/start-2017/limit-200/

He and Stafford both signed extensions that same offseason;
Player A had a 12m signing bonus
Player B had a 50m signing bonus

Player A had 40 mil guaranteed
Player B had 60 mil guaranteed

Player A practical guarantee 70mil
Player B practical guarantee  92 mil,

Total A - 125
Totbal B - 135

So F it, Carr did take a discount. He was coming off a massive season with a ton of hype and took significantly less then Stafford. 

Literally same year, same length of contract, similar preceived QBs (esp after 2016), and a thin QB FA market. 

Yikes, I am glad I didnt just enter a random conversation, and keep telling the guy he was missing the point of a conversation I wasnt even in LOL LOL

Is this a serious post. Tell me it's not. Stafford got 27 vs carr 25. Stafford signed second. Stafford literally waited for carr to sign his deal first. Lol. Cmon man your being silly at this point. If they both hit fa. They both get about the same with whoever signs 2nd getting a lil more most likely. Please just stop. 

[BackinBlack]

5 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

“All along the way I was like ‘how do we keep my teammates?’” Carr said of his contract negotiations. “That’s what I kept telling [my agent]. I was like . . . ‘Is this good for Gabe [Jackson]? Is this good for Khalil [Mack]? Is this good for Amari [Cooper]? . . these are things that I said to him numerous amounts of times. I didn’t want to hurt our team.”
https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2017/6/23/15864748/derek-carr-told-his-agent-to-structure-his-deal-so-raiders-could-re-sign-other-top-players
 

Carr was told they would still have room for Mack. I honestly think Gruden wanted AB more. Not sure you can put that on Carr.

Again, I am just going off what he has said. He said he wanted to keep Cooper Gabe and Mack together, exactly the point you are saying right now. 

Unfortunately Carr is the QB, not the GM.
It is not up too him. 

You blaming him for Mack, again I think is your opinion of him as a QB tainting your view on him overall

 

4 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Again It’s a free country if you think Carr’s contract had no effect on us not being able to sign Mack aye more power to you.

 

4 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

lol yeap your right  we could afford AB Joyner and Brown but couldnt afford Mack. 
It had nothing to do with wanting more first round picks. 

It was 100% Carrs fault. 
It was lso Carrs fault we drafted ruggs, and Carr shouldve been there to pick ruggs up that niht too. He is the leader after all

 

2 hours ago, dante9876 said:

You really believe carr said I'll take a discount and raiders said naw we got enough space to make you highest paid qb and keep everybody. Here is the highest paid contract. Come on now. 

 

1 hour ago, BackinBlack said:

No I think Carr said, I want to make sure the team will still be able to afford Mack Gabe and Cooper,
and the team said, yes we will be able to make it work. 

KC has 6 people on average that would make 20mil a season. 
Why is it so crazy that we wouldve been able to afford 4. If we wanted. 

You really believe KC can just pay people whatever, and the Raiders cannot?

 

9 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

You don't even remember what you typing at this point. You literally said I 100% believe he would had be paid more on the open market at the time. That is the definition of a discount. You just said that. What are you even talking about? Lolol. 

And to your so called point. The statement I quoted to begin with was you saying he wanted a contract to fit all those guys. My point was it don't make sense for them to pay him what they did if he actually said that to the team.  I was refuting your evidence to your main point. Not your main point. 

again you literally jumped into a conversation I was having, saying i missed the point. 
I said I thought Carr was told he would still have room for the team. Which we did. 

3 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

Is this a serious post. Tell me it's not. Stafford got 27 vs carr 25. Stafford signed second. Stafford literally waited for carr to sign his deal first. Lol. Cmon man your being silly at this point. If they both hit fa. They both get about the same with whoever signs 2nd getting a lil more most likely. Please just stop. 

Ahhh I see you are the type who sees the 6 yr 200 mil contract, with 30 mil guaranteed type and goes crazy without realizing all that matters are the guaranteed numbers. 

[BackinBlack]

5 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

Is this a serious post. Tell me it's not. Stafford got 27 vs carr 25. Stafford signed second. Stafford literally waited for carr to sign his deal first. Lol. Cmon man your being silly at this point. If they both hit fa. They both get about the same with whoever signs 2nd getting a lil more most likely. Please just stop. 

Do you honestly think Carrs team didnt realize whoever signed second would get more?
What would you say Carr signing first did for the Raiders lol
2nd player gets a little more, means player 1 gets a little less. . . or wait for it,

player 1 a discount. 

You just typed it. LOL

Edited February 17, 2022 by BackinBlack

[dante9876]

8 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Do you honestly think Carrs team didnt realize whoever signed second would get more?
What would you say Carr signing first did for the Raiders lol
2nd player gets a little more, means player 1 gets a little less. . . or wait for it,

player 1 a discount. 

You just typed it. LOL

Naw. I think Carr team said they going to make you the highest paid player ever in the league for one great year of production. Take the deal. But if you want to call him signing first him taking a discount to make you feel better go right ahead. 

[BackinBlack]

2 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

Naw. I think Carr team said they going to make you the highest paid player ever in the league for one great year of production. Take the deal. But if you want to call him signing first him taking a discount to make you feel better go right ahead. 

Ok great so he at least gave the raiders a bit of an advantage compared to the lions and Stafford. 

now back to the only thing I was discussing; carrs contract left us with room to sign Mack still lmao

[dante9876]

2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Ok great so he at least gave the raiders a bit of an advantage compared to the lions and Stafford. 

now back to the only thing I was discussing; carrs contract left us with room to sign Mack still lmao

Yup and have a terrible roster behind it. 

[Geezy]

8 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I’m just tired of the endless excuses on why carr isn’t producing. you would think he was a 5 time world champion before we drafted him and we just ruined him. 

Crazy how many staffs have stuck with him, you would think he was a bottom 5 QB the way y’all **** on him.