2021 NFL Draft Thread

[NYRaider]

6 minutes ago, Jerry said:

You were there?  Fill us in with all these facts.

This is Andre James burner account.

[Jerry]

14 minutes ago, Mr Raider said:

Aghalor is a guy I would like back for sure, but my number on what I would consider my final number on what's acceptable to sign him is probably much lower than the vast majority of others. 

I don't believe we should be in the business of investing heavy money into a guy after one solid, good year. Especially when that year is closer to the outlier of his career than any of his poor seasons statistically speaking. 

To me part of what made NA such a good signing and his value to our offense came from his value, our bang for our buck, his production in relation to how much he earns. He wasn't heavily involved to begin the year, and he really came on strong towards the middle to end of the season last year, but still all things considered, his year was merely good. It was a solid showing.

If he has the exact same season next year as he did last season but he's making 10+ million dollars, are we praising his game or are we saying we need more from a guy being paid that much money? I think it's closer to the latter for me personally. And I also don't think him repeating the same type of year next season as he did this past season is anywhere close to probable, or even the most probable outcome. 

I think it's far more likely he reverts back to the type of guy he has been his entire career. Capable of having a 800-900 yard, handful of TDs, a decent big play guy, but just as likely to struggle with drops, effort potentially (I believe I remember reading that was a concern during a particular year in Philly by the coaching staff but perhaps not), and overall inconsistency. 

And if he was unhappy/complaining about the team during a year when he was having perhaps his best season ever and greatly improving his standing in the NFL as a whole? What happens if he goes back to his dissappearing act from the majority of his career? Like perhaps his speech was needed, I definitely think someone should have been calling out certain players and coaches, I'm just not sure the former first round pick that was loathed by a fanbase for his inconsistent play from the most simple aspect of his job (catching the ball) to the more complex ones. 

I personally would set a very hard stance with NA. If he wants to come back for 5 or 6 million a year, I'm alright with that. Because at that rate the level of play we have seen throughout his career as a whole says that he will likely produce at a level where you still feel like he was worth that type of money. I wouldn't go more than 7 and still feel entirely confident that a year from signing that I am not worried that he is overpaid or failing to live up to his pay. I'm not saying he will sign for that. He likely won't. Someone will pay him more. But if I were running things it wouldn't be me. 

I would be far more likely to see if Tyrell Williams was willing to take a paycut to stay on the team he has been with for the past 2 seasons and was producing just as well as NA was his first year here before the injuries really did him in. He might be willing to lower his hit for the season because he doesn't think his stock has improved to the level of feeling confident someone else will pay him 11+ million on the market so uprooting his life isn't worth it for not any more money long term. 

Gruden is being paid as an elite coach. He has an identity on the offensive side. And he has a history of a lot of success from wide outs in his offense. Obviously guys like Brown and Rice were all time greats, but they weren't what they once were. He got a lot out of guys like Galloway and such. He should be able to scheme up/we should be able to bring in another guy that is under the radar like Agahlor was at his time of signing for a couple million bucks that can come in and have a nice season for us. And Ruggs/Edwards were just drafted this past season as two guys we invested a high first round and third round pick in. In year two expectations should be for them to take another step. Ruggs should and IS entirely capable of having just as good, if not better year than Nelson. That should be his exact role. So everything I have already said on top of NA playing a role that is only going to keep Ruggs from playing a more defined actual play maker role is a huge negative. When you add on the fact he would be doing that while making like 8 times more than he did last season on top? That's a terrible idea. 

Set a firm line with NA. If he wants to take more money elsewhere, thank him for a good year and send him on his way. You don't invest that type of money simply because a guy outperformed expectations last season, because once you give him a raise making 5+ times as much as the year before and he's been inconsistent his whole career you are asking for disappointment. If he wants to take the most money, go out and look for another bargain that is being slept on that can come in and contribute for a fraction of the price. Let Ruggs and Edwards get more on their plate. And use resources to sure up the biggest weaknes on this team, the defense. 

If you are really considering paying Aghalor 8-12 million spend 18 or whatever and you feel its THAT important to not lose a talented productive WR, go get a Robinson, Golladay, Godwin, etc type. Those guys are far more likely to live up to their money and expectations even at a much bigger price tag than NA is to 10 million a year IMO. 

Or let him walk and look for a guy like NA last year that was a former high pick that has had some decent years but never truly lived up to his expectations, pay them 2 million bucks and trust an offense with Jacobs, Waller, Ruggs, a good OL, and a veteran QB can let him shine and blow our expectations away. 

Either way, I feel it's a super long shot to sign Nelson to some multi year 10ish million per season contract and a year or two now feel like he lived up to what we expected and earned his money. It's far more likely we wonder why we let one pretty solid season fool us into paying him that type of money. Even if 10 million doesn't make him a top paid WR, it still puts him in the realm of guys like Tyler Lockett, Tyler Boyd, Jamison Crowder, Robby Anderson, DeVante Parker, Emmanuel Sanders, etc. And I feel very confident that all of those guys would come in and have a better year, more consistent play for us, and be deemed worthy of their contract than NA. 

Nelson was a great find because he was making peanuts and he played like our best wide receiver (on a team missing their WR being paid the most, and no other veteran presence at the position in the top 4 or so WR spots on the depth chart). Don't let that blind us and overrate him for one year. Factor in his entire career. And factor in how much did we all love having him because he was making scraps, and whether last years play on a big contract would equal the same amount of love in the future. Because I suspect even if his play doesn't drop off at all, if we pay him 8-12 million a year he won't be loved very much and instead will be viewed as a guy we really overpaid in comparison to other guys making similar money. 

So much written just to state that you believe Agholor should only be resigned if he is willing to come back for 5-6M per season, and that if we don't resign him, then we should go after a top FA WR for roughly 18M per season.  

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Jerry said:

So much written just to state that you believe Agholor should only be resigned if he is willing to come back for 5-6M per season, and that if we don't resign him, then we should go after a top FA WR for roughly 18M per season.  

If we were willing to pay Tyrell Williams $11M APY I don't see why we can't do the same for Nelly. 

[NYRaider]

28 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

LolLook dude carr has his stats he’s good. W/L isn’t a qb stat right so why would he get emotional over a loss like nelly. 

Carr is the Jack Easterby of quarterbacks. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

4 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Again, your post and this post implied that DC was who you were talking about.  Clearly we're right.  Either way, I'm too tired right now to care much.

Bruh I’m just going with the flow I give a blank statement and y’all go mama bear over carr so we can make it about carr if you want. I was talking about Brady n mahomey. For example last week was it hardman who fumbled Iirc. Mahomey made it a point to lift the jacket over his head and encourage him. That’s expecting greatness out of your guys. That’s what qbs especially leaders do.

[NYRaider]

16 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Your taking a lot of liberty to not just fill in gaps in a questionable story but to go as far as to actually craft it to suit your bias.

I like Carr. I'm just relaying a story reported by the Athletic. According to them, people who get paid to be around/cover stories about the team, after the Dolphins loss Agholor told the entire team they sucked and had zero accountability while the rest of the team including Carr sat in silence. 

Carr said before the year he wanted to honor Kobe Bryant with "Mamba Mentality" and then completely folded down the stretch when the games actually counted. RIP Kobe, hopefully Carr never disrespects his legacy again. 

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Bruh I’m just going with the flow I give a blank statement and y’all go mama bear over carr so we can make it about carr if you want. I was talking about Brady n mahomey. For example last week was it hardman who fumbled Iirc. Mahomey made it a point to lift the jacket over his head and encourage him. That’s expecting greatness out of your guys. That’s what qbs especially leaders do.

Agreed. When you see successful teams, typically they take on the persona/personality of the QB. Which is why an organization like Tampa can go 18 years without a playoff win and then go to the Super Bowl after adding Brady. I like Carr but he strikes me as soft and the team looked very soft down the stretch. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Agreed. When you see successful teams, typically they take on the persona/personality of the QB. Which is why an organization like Tampa can go 18 years without a playoff win and then go to the Super Bowl after adding Brady. I like Carr but he strikes me as soft and the team looked very soft down the stretch. 

FWIW carr getting boo’d outa Oakland imo killed whatever ground he had to stand on as a leader. Hard to bounce back from that. 

[Rich7sena]

7 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Agreed. When you see successful teams, typically they take on the persona/personality of the QB. Which is why an organization like Tampa can go 18 years without a playoff win and then go to the Super Bowl after adding Brady. I like Carr but he strikes me as soft and the team looked very soft down the stretch. 

Why?

Also, this Agoholor story is getting blown out of the proportion. First, I'm pretty sure what Agholor said was more along the lines of "we suck" as opposed to specific players sucking. Second, Agholor gets a lot of love for being the best wide receiver on the team last year, and the best receiver since Cooper/Crabtree, but he kind of sucked himself this year. He dropped a handful of key balls this year that any NFL receiver would be expected to catch. He's still every bit deserving of the "unlike Agholor" meme.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Rich7sena

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

FWIW carr getting boo’d outa Oakland imo killed whatever ground he had to stand on as a leader. Hard to bounce back from that. 

I was at the Tennessee game in 2019 when he threw the ball away on 4th & goal down 21 in the 4th quarter and got boo'd off the field, lol. I dipped for the bart immediately. 

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

Why?

Just the way he speaks, acts, and plays. When you see a guy like Brady or Mahomes, they come out every game and want to absolutely murder you. Carr doesn't have that type of energy. 

[Rich7sena]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Just the way he speaks, acts, and plays. When you see a guy like Brady or Mahomes, they come out every game and want to absolutely murder you. Carr doesn't have that type of energy. 

Mahomes? He acts and sounds like Kermit the frog.

I think Carr is one of the best QBs in terms of public speaking. Probably doesn't hurt that he's a part-time preacher.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Rich7sena

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Rich7sena said:

Mahomes? He acts and sounds like Kermit the frog.

I think Carr is one of the best QBs in terms of public speaking. Probably doesn't hurt that he's a part-time preacher.

Carr just sits quietly while Nelly tells him he sucks. 

[Rich7sena]

5 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Carr just sits quietly while Nelly tells him he sucks. 

Do you really think Carr, or literally any quarterback, doesn't do this? Also, what report said that Agholor said Carr sucks? And sometimes its not really the place to speak up when someone has an outburst. Agholor probably said something that everyone was thinking at the time--it was a tough loss. It's a non-story to me but it seems like people are (unsurprisingly) reading too much into it.

Unrelated, but Carr has much more license telling Agholor how much he sucks for consistently dropping catchable balls.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Rich7sena

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Rich7sena said:

Do you really think Carr, or literally any quarterback, doesn't do this? Also, what report said that Agholor said Carr sucks? Unrelated, but Carr has much more license telling Agholor how much he sucks for consistently dropping catchable balls.

Nelly got a Super Bowl ring though. Carr has the most losses in NFL history over a 7 year period.