2021 NFL Draft Thread

[Jerry]

2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Those qbs also demand the most out of their wrs and don’t accept mediocre effort. 

That's right, I forgot.  Derek Carr is completely content with WRs who provide mediocre effort.  Thank God you're here to point out such an in-depth analysis.

[jimkelly02]

3 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I’m leaning towards barmore just cause we have nothing there at 3t. I think 3t is our top priority. Parsons is a tricky player I’ll have to watch more.

Yes 3T is a much bigger need.... but Parsons is a tier of 2 above Barmore as a prospect.

Barmore isn’t a complete 3T as he’s very inconsiderate against the run.  He’s been a DPR iDL basically for most of his time at Alabama.  He might not ever be a run stuffer although with his frame and Athleticism one would expect him At least be decent.

If your expecting Barmore to start week 1 your going to be really really upset with his play.  You draft Barmore because of his pass rushing ability and slowly phase him into the run game.  Despite all he has going for him as a pass rusher he’s still super raw.  I don’t say that like it’s a bad thing, he’s very good but has so much be can improve on and become an elite pass rushing 3T.  His greatest asset is his agility and lateral movement skills as a rusher.  He certainly could improve his bull rush.  I expect him to struggle vs double teams early.  

.... but his anchor is so soft.  If you start Barmore early teams absolutely will run right at him and he’ll be on skates more than Wayne Gretzky.

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Mahomes can have Kelce, Hill, Hardman, Watkins, Andy Reid and a backfield of Bell and CEH, but when I suggest we resign Nelson ******* Agholor people are saying Carr shouldn't need him?

And that is the team we want to keep up with in the division? Am I not making sense to people?

I'm all for bringing him back, give him Tyrell Williams contract. We paid Williams $22M for 700 yards and 6 TD and Nelly $1.5M for 900 yards and 9 TD. 

[jimkelly02]

2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Those qbs also demand the most out of their wrs and don’t accept mediocre effort. 

I just want to know what Carr did to you personally?  

As a “professional hater” and probably one of the most dedicated people in the world to being spiteful and hateful to someone once its deserved And I commit to it.. I must say “real Recognize Real!”.  You never miss an opportunity to hate Carr.  I absolutely disagree but respect the level of commitment.

Derek Carr is your version of “Nancy Thatcher and The Brits” (it’s an Irish thing) and Hilary Clinton to me.

Edited February 1, 2021 by jimkelly02

[NYRaider]

8 minutes ago, Jerry said:

That's right, I forgot.  Derek Carr is completely content with WRs who provide mediocre effort.  Thank God you're here to point out such an in-depth analysis.

Nelly told the whole team they sucked and Carr just sat in silence. 

[MrOaktown_56]

8 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Nelly told the whole team they sucked and Carr just sat in silence. 

I will say I think Carr is too positive sometimes. Sometimes you have to rip into guys. That's why it's good to have some fire in the locker room.

[NCOUGHMAN]

22 minutes ago, Jerry said:

That's right, I forgot.  Derek Carr is completely content with WRs who provide mediocre effort.  Thank God you're here to point out such an in-depth analysis.

Lol 🍻 did I say carr ?

[NCOUGHMAN]

14 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Nelly told the whole team they sucked and Carr just sat in silence. 

LolLook dude carr has his stats he’s good. W/L isn’t a qb stat right so why would he get emotional over a loss like nelly. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

16 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I just want to know what Carr did to you personally?  

As a “professional hater” and probably one of the most dedicated people in the world to being spiteful and hateful to someone once its deserved And I commit to it.. I must say “real Recognize Real!”.  You never miss an opportunity to hate Carr.  I absolutely disagree but respect the level of commitment.

Derek Carr is your version of “Nancy Thatcher and The Brits” (it’s an Irish thing) and Hilary Clinton to me.

Did I even mention his name lol... but hey if the shoe fits...

[NCOUGHMAN]

21 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Yes 3T is a much bigger need.... but Parsons is a tier of 2 above Barmore as a prospect.

Barmore isn’t a complete 3T as he’s very inconsiderate against the run.  He’s been a DPR iDL basically for most of his time at Alabama.  He might not ever be a run stuffer although with his frame and Athleticism one would expect him At least be decent.

If your expecting Barmore to start week 1 your going to be really really upset with his play.  You draft Barmore because of his pass rushing ability and slowly phase him into the run game.  Despite all he has going for him as a pass rusher he’s still super raw.  I don’t say that like it’s a bad thing, he’s very good but has so much be can improve on and become an elite pass rushing 3T.  His greatest asset is his agility and lateral movement skills as a rusher.  He certainly could improve his bull rush.  I expect him to struggle vs double teams early.  

.... but his anchor is so soft.  If you start Barmore early teams absolutely will run right at him and he’ll be on skates more than Wayne Gretzky.

Can’t double everyone and barmore next to Hankins with cle and maxx on the edges. FWIW id draft 2 dts. 
 

I agree he has limitations in his game but every rookie does plus parsons hasn’t played in a year iirc.

[Mr Raider]

Aghalor is a guy I would like back for sure, but my number on what I would consider my final number on what's acceptable to sign him is probably much lower than the vast majority of others. 

I don't believe we should be in the business of investing heavy money into a guy after one solid, good year. Especially when that year is closer to the outlier of his career than any of his poor seasons statistically speaking. 

To me part of what made NA such a good signing and his value to our offense came from his value, our bang for our buck, his production in relation to how much he earns. He wasn't heavily involved to begin the year, and he really came on strong towards the middle to end of the season last year, but still all things considered, his year was merely good. It was a solid showing.

If he has the exact same season next year as he did last season but he's making 10+ million dollars, are we praising his game or are we saying we need more from a guy being paid that much money? I think it's closer to the latter for me personally. And I also don't think him repeating the same type of year next season as he did this past season is anywhere close to probable, or even the most probable outcome. 

I think it's far more likely he reverts back to the type of guy he has been his entire career. Capable of having a 800-900 yard, handful of TDs, a decent big play guy, but just as likely to struggle with drops, effort potentially (I believe I remember reading that was a concern during a particular year in Philly by the coaching staff but perhaps not), and overall inconsistency. 

And if he was unhappy/complaining about the team during a year when he was having perhaps his best season ever and greatly improving his standing in the NFL as a whole? What happens if he goes back to his dissappearing act from the majority of his career? Like perhaps his speech was needed, I definitely think someone should have been calling out certain players and coaches, I'm just not sure the former first round pick that was loathed by a fanbase for his inconsistent play from the most simple aspect of his job (catching the ball) to the more complex ones. 

I personally would set a very hard stance with NA. If he wants to come back for 5 or 6 million a year, I'm alright with that. Because at that rate the level of play we have seen throughout his career as a whole says that he will likely produce at a level where you still feel like he was worth that type of money. I wouldn't go more than 7 and still feel entirely confident that a year from signing that I am not worried that he is overpaid or failing to live up to his pay. I'm not saying he will sign for that. He likely won't. Someone will pay him more. But if I were running things it wouldn't be me. 

I would be far more likely to see if Tyrell Williams was willing to take a paycut to stay on the team he has been with for the past 2 seasons and was producing just as well as NA was his first year here before the injuries really did him in. He might be willing to lower his hit for the season because he doesn't think his stock has improved to the level of feeling confident someone else will pay him 11+ million on the market so uprooting his life isn't worth it for not any more money long term. 

Gruden is being paid as an elite coach. He has an identity on the offensive side. And he has a history of a lot of success from wide outs in his offense. Obviously guys like Brown and Rice were all time greats, but they weren't what they once were. He got a lot out of guys like Galloway and such. He should be able to scheme up/we should be able to bring in another guy that is under the radar like Agahlor was at his time of signing for a couple million bucks that can come in and have a nice season for us. And Ruggs/Edwards were just drafted this past season as two guys we invested a high first round and third round pick in. In year two expectations should be for them to take another step. Ruggs should and IS entirely capable of having just as good, if not better year than Nelson. That should be his exact role. So everything I have already said on top of NA playing a role that is only going to keep Ruggs from playing a more defined actual play maker role is a huge negative. When you add on the fact he would be doing that while making like 8 times more than he did last season on top? That's a terrible idea. 

Set a firm line with NA. If he wants to take more money elsewhere, thank him for a good year and send him on his way. You don't invest that type of money simply because a guy outperformed expectations last season, because once you give him a raise making 5+ times as much as the year before and he's been inconsistent his whole career you are asking for disappointment. If he wants to take the most money, go out and look for another bargain that is being slept on that can come in and contribute for a fraction of the price. Let Ruggs and Edwards get more on their plate. And use resources to sure up the biggest weaknes on this team, the defense. 

If you are really considering paying Aghalor 8-12 million spend 18 or whatever and you feel its THAT important to not lose a talented productive WR, go get a Robinson, Golladay, Godwin, etc type. Those guys are far more likely to live up to their money and expectations even at a much bigger price tag than NA is to 10 million a year IMO. 

Or let him walk and look for a guy like NA last year that was a former high pick that has had some decent years but never truly lived up to his expectations, pay them 2 million bucks and trust an offense with Jacobs, Waller, Ruggs, a good OL, and a veteran QB can let him shine and blow our expectations away. 

Either way, I feel it's a super long shot to sign Nelson to some multi year 10ish million per season contract and a year or two now feel like he lived up to what we expected and earned his money. It's far more likely we wonder why we let one pretty solid season fool us into paying him that type of money. Even if 10 million doesn't make him a top paid WR, it still puts him in the realm of guys like Tyler Lockett, Tyler Boyd, Jamison Crowder, Robby Anderson, DeVante Parker, Emmanuel Sanders, etc. And I feel very confident that all of those guys would come in and have a better year, more consistent play for us, and be deemed worthy of their contract than NA. 

Nelson was a great find because he was making peanuts and he played like our best wide receiver (on a team missing their WR being paid the most, and no other veteran presence at the position in the top 4 or so WR spots on the depth chart). Don't let that blind us and overrate him for one year. Factor in his entire career. And factor in how much did we all love having him because he was making scraps, and whether last years play on a big contract would equal the same amount of love in the future. Because I suspect even if his play doesn't drop off at all, if we pay him 8-12 million a year he won't be loved very much and instead will be viewed as a guy we really overpaid in comparison to other guys making similar money. 

[jimkelly02]

25 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Nelly told the whole team they sucked and Carr just sat in silence. 

Your taking a lot of liberty to not just fill in gaps in a questionable story but to go as far as to actually craft it to suit your bias.

 1.  The story itself borders on fake news.  Why did the reporter wait weeks to release the story?  And he’s the only reporter that was told about it?  Not only that Rico Gafford and Daryl Worley both laughed at the facts of the story and even went as far as to make a comment that eluded to the fact that Nelly of all people wouldn’t do something like that.  Its not clarified if they meant To gab at Nelly as if he’s a guilty party himself as far as effort or if they meant it in a good way.

2.  You took quite the artistic liberty to entirely create a sub story that Carr’s some little ** that just stood there shivering in the corner taking it.  Hey, If that’s how you want to believe the story could have happened enjoy, but by no means is there a single shred of evidence or even reasoning to suggest it’s even remotely true.

[Jerry]

17 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Lol 🍻 did I say carr ?

I assumed you were implying him.  But yeah cheers.

[Jerry]

33 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Nelly told the whole team they sucked and Carr just sat in silence. 

You were there?  Fill us in with all these facts.

[Jerry]

17 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Did I even mention his name lol... but hey if the shoe fits...

Again, your post and this post implied that DC was who you were talking about.  Clearly we're right.  Either way, I'm too tired right now to care much.