BigChanDynasty2 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 On 12/19/2017 at 7:21 AM, Worm Guts said: Statistically, Glennon's rookie year was comparable to Bridgewaters. 2013 Buccs: 31st ranked offense in Off Yds / Drive. 27th in Off Pts / Drive (1.44). Turned the ball over 10.3% of drives. Yards per Play: 4.5 Glennon 6.3 YPA 2014 Vikes: 24th ranked offense in Off Yds / Drive. 21st in Off Pts / Drive (1.68). Turned the ball over 11.1% of drives. Yards per Play: 5.2 Bridgewater 7.3 YPA '14 Vikings weren't a good offense and Teddy wasn't a world beater as a rookie but he was more efficient and the offense functioned better than Glennons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perrynoid Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Let's look at this from another angle: don't each of us think that the GM and coaching staff is going to further upgrade the OL in the upcoming draft (and possibly via free agency)? That being true, Case will have an even better supporting cast than he has right now. Even if his talent level stays the same, he should be more productive with an even better o-line and Cook returning, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshpit23 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Great discussion guys. I like Keenum; however, I couldn’t begin to analyze his play or project his future. I can’t see cutting the guy if plays like he has this year. What will it take to keep him? I have no clue, but we gotta keep him, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshpit23 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 43 minutes ago, perrynoid said: he should be more productive with an even better o-line and Cook returning, correct? Good points. Sometimes I forget about Cook coming back next season. He most definitely will improve the offense. Can you imagine the play action?? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss_vike Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I think the #Vikings will draft a QB high this year, no matter what. The team is pretty deep, fairly young with an existing realistic time window of 4-5 years. Wouldn't surprise me if they will franchise Case, signe Teddy to 2 years around 10 per and draft mayfield, allen or rudolph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 8 hours ago, Dolmonite26 said: I just don't understand why its really being considered. There are numerous statistical and film evaluations that tell us that Keenum isn't a very good QB. Essentially he need the type of supporting cast that exist right now, as well as proven statistical outliers (contested catch rate, sack/pressure ratio) to produce at the rate he is. All things staying equal in this situation (personal, coaching, health) in 2018, which isn't exactly predictable (expect the unexpected), a low threshold of play at the position is/has been needed. Its going to cost 20+ to keep him. How is that less risky than giving Teddy 8-12M? Even if teddy is only as good as Case (likely) you win out. All of that being without factoring in the draft, as to which I would say QB needs to be on the shortlist in either scenario. Doesn't see open receivers? Most every QB does. Makes ill-advised throws? Most every QB does. He's good because of the supporting cast? That's why football is a TEAM sport. By the way, I love that "personnel changes" is a reason why he might regress. You mean like adding Dalvin Cook to the backfield? Boy, I can't wait to see how much worse Keenum gets by having a great QB behind him. Basically the only reason I'm somewhat hesitant to lock him in as the guy is we only have one season of evidence, and we have a possible coordinator change coming. I also believe a full offseason can get Teddy to a good spot, where he could be on a similar level. I'm a little nervous about just letting one of them walk, not knowing for sure which one we should lock in longterm. I don't want to possibly give away Brett Favre because Chris Miller led us to the playoffs and even won a playoff game. But at the same time, I wouldn't want to possibly just let Kurt Warner walk without knowing if that was all he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 7 hours ago, marshpit23 said: Great discussion guys. I like Keenum; however, I couldn’t begin to analyze his play or project his future. I can’t see cutting the guy if plays like he has this year. What will it take to keep him? I have no clue, but we gotta keep him, right? What will it take to keep him? That depends on how the team wants to structure the deal. Case Keenum has been providing near MVP QB play for the team this year. That is rare. It is realistic to have concerns about his ability to maintain near MVP level of play. I am not really concerned about him being able to maintain at least average QB play. There are two ways to go about it: 1) Sign Case to a deal that gives the team an easy out after a year; 2) Sign him to a market level deal that ties the team to Case for the next 3-5 years. The easiest way to keep him while staying flexible in the future is to apply the franchise tag. I think that will be around $24M for the year. A big downside of this is that if Case were to continue his level of play or something close to it, keeping him beyond '18 will become increasingly expensive. If Case plays decently it would go just like things are going with the Redskins and Kirk Cousins. Playing the year-to-year game gives a QB a ton of leverage in negotiations and isn't necessarily good for the team. As far as signing him to a market level deal, it would be a bit cheaper per year than going year-to-year. However, there is more risk to the team if Case suffers a serious injury or his play otherwise falls off a cliff. This isn't really any different than the risks of signing anyone long-term. It would take guaranteed money of probably $40-$50M for a five year deal that averages somewhere north of $20M. The only way to get him to sign for less IMO would involve letting him go into free agency and hoping that he doesn't find a better offer. Given the need for QBs in this league and what Case has put on tape I believe someone would sign him to something north of a four year $80M deal. Brock Osweiller got 4 years and $72M a couple years ago while putting a lot less on tape than Case Keenum has shown. A big wrench in all of this is Teddy Bridgewater. We all love Teddy. The organization loves Teddy. His teammates love Teddy. Everyone loves Teddy. It is hard to imagine the team being able to keep Teddy around while paying Case Keenum to start. We would all love it if Teddy would sign to be a backup for $7M in '18, but will he? If he would that would be great but more likely the team will be forced to pick one of the two. As obvious as it seems that the team needs to keep Case, this wrench gives significant pause. Will Teddy ever have a year as good as Case is currently having? That is unlikely. Will Teddy be a better QB than Case in 2020? Maybe. The team still has a few weeks to sort this out. This is a very difficult decision for the team. I am not ready to decide which option I would pick going forward but I have to say that I am leaning Case Keenum. If the season ended right now I would look to sign Keenum to a market level 4-5 year deal. Perhaps Keenum would sign a 4-5 year deal that is essentially a 1 year $24M deal before the serious guarantees kicked in to keep him beyond the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywindO2 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Klomp said: I'm a little nervous about just letting one of them walk, not knowing for sure which one we should lock in longterm. I don't want to possibly give away Brett Favre because Chris Miller led us to the playoffs and even won a playoff game. But at the same time, I wouldn't want to possibly just let Kurt Warner walk without knowing if that was all he had. This is exactly how I feel too and have felt that way since before the season even started, except I thought we'd be questioning Bradford vs Bridgewater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 9 hours ago, perrynoid said: Let's look at this from another angle: don't each of us think that the GM and coaching staff is going to further upgrade the OL in the upcoming draft (and possibly via free agency)? That being true, Case will have an even better supporting cast than he has right now. Even if his talent level stays the same, he should be more productive with an even better o-line and Cook returning, correct? I think people probably said the same thing about Favre in 2010, or Vick in his second year in Philly. you could nitpick both of them but there are plenty of examples out there. No, there is no guarantee/suggestion/whatever word you want to call it that Keenum will be better next year. only 1 year of any real success for a player who has been in the league for a while doesn't tell us much of anything going forward. it's something that no fan of their team likes to here, but you don't improve every offseason. Fans must understand that. some players naturally regress, even if they are placed in a strong situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: I think people probably said the same thing about Favre in 2010, or Vick in his second year in Philly. you could nitpick both of them but there are plenty of examples out there. No, there is no guarantee/suggestion/whatever word you want to call it that Keenum will be better next year. only 1 year of any real success for a player who has been in the league for a while doesn't tell us much of anything going forward. it's something that no fan of their team likes to here, but you don't improve every offseason. Fans must understand that. some players naturally regress, even if they are placed in a strong situation. I'm not sure what the comparison to Favre is. Favre wasn't some guy who had success for a season and then got exposed, he just got old. Case might fall off next year, but it will be for a different reason. Case, you would more worry about being like Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 yeah Favre might be a bad example, we all knew the end was coming for sure because he was old as dirt. What does that make @vike daddy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWall_23 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 The clear Jeff Fischer impact (Goff, Foles, Keenum) has me more open to signing Keenum long term. The playoff game/s will obviously be the deciding factor. Teddy had the vaunted Seahawks dead to rights, game was over, he did enough to get that marquee playoff win. If Keenum struggles, missed wide open WR's or has turnovers in a playoff game...everyone's perception of him will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Klomp said: Boy, I can't wait to see how much worse Keenum gets by having a great QB behind him. duel QB's? New offensive system could be interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Worm Guts said: I'm not sure what the comparison to Favre is. Favre wasn't some guy who had success for a season and then got exposed, he just got old. Case might fall off next year, but it will be for a different reason. Case, you would more worry about being like Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown. Like I said, you can nitpick, but there are plenty of examples out there. we don't know what Case will be after this year, and that might be okay. any contract extension we give him will probably give us an early 'out' and not be so crippling to the team I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 6 hours ago, swiss_vike said: The team is pretty deep, fairly young with an existing realistic time window of 4-5 years. is Zimmer retiring!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.