AJ Green

[INbengalfan]

6 minutes ago, theJ said:

It's just unusual that only one of them does play teams. 

When Tate was active last year, it was normally as the #3. 

Yes, but no Green and No Ross (for the most part).  I look at it like this.  Tate operates as a fantasy flex.  No more Eifert will open up plays for him.  Not only that, we have a new QB who likes to put it up for grabs on broken plays.  That's Tate's forte.  I just can't see him seeing a reduced role, even with Higgins, because I don't see them playing that same spot (Y).  In redzone, I see Green and Higgins wide, Ross and Tate in the slot, and either Mixon or Gio in the backfield.  Let's see how teams defend that height, coupled with Ross' initial burst at the snap.  Ross should be seeing routes like AB did in his best years with BB up the river.  Thje other three WRs are all great at jump balls and fades.  Defenses can't take all of that away without 3 tall CBs

[Johnny Nix]

1 hour ago, INbengalfan said:

Yes, but no Green and No Ross (for the most part).  I look at it like this.  Tate operates as a fantasy flex.  No more Eifert will open up plays for him.  Not only that, we have a new QB who likes to put it up for grabs on broken plays.  That's Tate's forte.  I just can't see him seeing a reduced role, even with Higgins, because I don't see them playing that same spot (Y).  In redzone, I see Green and Higgins wide, Ross and Tate in the slot, and either Mixon or Gio in the backfield.  Let's see how teams defend that height, coupled with Ross' initial burst at the snap.  Ross should be seeing routes like AB did in his best years with BB up the river.  Thje other three WRs are all great at jump balls and fades.  Defenses can't take all of that away without 3 tall CBs

Boyd in the slot you mean

[INbengalfan]

39 minutes ago, johndeere1707 said:

Boyd in the slot you mean

Sometimes, yes.  But in the red zone, the tall package plus Ross would be highly effective

[Johnny Nix]

10 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

Sometimes, yes.  But in the red zone, the tall package plus Ross would be highly effective

I doubt they would take Boyd off the field for Ross

[BengalsBite]

14 minutes ago, johndeere1707 said:

I doubt they would take Boyd off the field for Ross

You mean Tate

[INbengalfan]

1 hour ago, johndeere1707 said:

I doubt they would take Boyd off the field for Ross

Why not?  Ross has an incredibly fast first few steps, creating instant separation.  Boyd can't do that.  Boyd isn't as tall as the other three either.

[Johnny Nix]

Boyd is our 2nd best WR, I don’t think he’s coming off the field unless he’s tired or hurt. 

[INbengalfan]

3 hours ago, johndeere1707 said:

Boyd is our 2nd best WR, I don’t think he’s coming off the field unless he’s tired or hurt. 

Then lets just agree to disagree.  I'm talking specifically in the red zone, as I noted above.  I think Ross and Tate offer more in tight spaces than Boyd, who ytruly ecels in finding open spots in zones and exploiting them.  Those don't happen in close and tight.

[theJ]

2 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

Then lets just agree to disagree.  I'm talking specifically in the red zone, as I noted above.  I think Ross and Tate offer more in tight spaces than Boyd, who ytruly ecels in finding open spots in zones and exploiting them.  Those don't happen in close and tight.

They might pull him off within the 5, but he's not coming out when they hit the 20. He's a mildly effective red zone receiver, is no shorty himself (6'1" IIRC), and a decent blocker.

Ross has some good reasons to be on the field too. It'll just depend on what the play call is, and the matchups. 

They probably do pull Tate off first, if I had to guess. Fwiw. 

[SmittyBacall]

On 5/9/2020 at 6:54 PM, INbengalfan said:

Thje other three WRs are all great at jump balls and fades.  Defenses can't take all of that away without 3 tall CBs

I agree with everything except this. There is substantial evidence that the goal line fade is ineffectual in the redzone. If you’re going to use a big body receiver in the redzone, slants, posts, and back-shoulder throws are the way to go. Ross is the guy you want running stick routes, outs, and crossing routes. Per PFF:

Quote

Since 2013, just under 33% of fades into the end zone from the five-yard line and in have been completed. Despite being the most-targeted route in this situation during that time frame, this represents the lowest completion percentage among routes with more than five targets, and on average, those routes result in a loss of 0.08 expected points each time they are targeted. That’s right, throwing the ball into the end zone to (generally) a one-on-one matchup, in a game that substantially favors the offense, gets you further away from scoring, on average.

Edited May 10, 2020 by SmittyBacall

[theJ]

13 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

I agree with everything except this. There is substantial evidence that the goal line fade is ineffectual in the redzone. If you’re going to use a big body receiver in the redzone, slants, posts, and back-shoulder throws are the way to go. Ross is the guy you want running stick routes, outs, and crossing routes. Per PFF:

 

If memory serves, a lot of Ross' touchdowns are on those quick out routes.  Isolate, fake inside, go out.  His quickness is deadly on those routes, and leaves him wide open more often than not.

Also, i agree, fades suck.  Been yelling at my TV for over 15 years about fades.

[SmittyBacall]

34 minutes ago, theJ said:

If memory serves, a lot of Ross' touchdowns are on those quick out routes.  Isolate, fake inside, go out.  His quickness is deadly on those routes, and leaves him wide open more often than not.

Also, i agree, fades suck.  Been yelling at my TV for over 15 years about fades.

Yep. I definitely remember Ross scoring on a few crossers as well. He just beats his man through traffic on the opposite side of the endzone. He’s weirdly productive in the redzone.

[THE DUKE]

Throwing fades to tall guys in the red zone is the most over rated trope in the NFL.  Ball skills, the ability to high point, hands catchers, and the ability to get separation (typically footwork and change of direction skills) are what work in the red zone on any route really.

[INbengalfan]

16 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

I agree with everything except this. There is substantial evidence that the goal line fade is ineffectual in the redzone. If you’re going to use a big body receiver in the redzone, slants, posts, and back-shoulder throws are the way to go. Ross is the guy you want running stick routes, outs, and crossing routes. Per PFF:

 

I mentioned fades off the top of my head, but all of those routes (back shoulder, etc) are also routes I'd consider in those red zone packages, and why I think Tate is more valuable in tight.  Didn't feel like listing every single route being run in the red zone.

[theJ]

55 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

I mentioned fades off the top of my head, but all of those routes (back shoulder, etc) are also routes I'd consider in those red zone packages, and why I think Tate is more valuable in tight.  Didn't feel like listing every single route being run in the red zone.

Not saying you're wrong necessarily, but Auden Tate does only have 1 career TD.  Even though he was pretty heavily involved last year in the second half of the season.  I hope he really ramps it up, and i really like his potential, especially for where he was drafted.  But i feel like in general, the fan base would be well to cool their jets a bit on expectations for him.  He still obviously had a long way to go last year.