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Best "Robin" of All Time?


RandyMossIsBoss

Robin  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. Best Robin?

    • Scottie Pippen
      9
    • Dwyane Wade
      1
    • Kobe Bryant
      9
    • Kevin McHale
      0
    • Kareem
      2
    • Other
      1


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Specifically in their role as "robin." So for example, ignore what Wade did before Lebron came.

 

Wade (2010-14): 2 rings, 2nd team, 2x 3rd team (2010-11 probably wasn't true batman-robin situation yet)

Pippen (1987-93, 1995-98): 6 rings, 1st team, 2x 2nd team, 2x 3rd team, 7x all-defense

Kobe (1996-2004): 3 rings, 2x 1st team, 2x 2nd team, 3rd team, 5x all-defense

McHale (1980-1992): 3 rings, 1st team, 6x all-defense, 2x 6th man

Kareem (1982-89): 3 rings, 2x 1st team, 2x 2nd team, all-defense (debatable when Kareem became Magic's robin, use your own judgement)

 

Personally don't think Curry was KD's robin, it was a very unique situation. KD was the best player, but did Curry really take a backseat? Offense still sort of revolved around his unique abilities. That's definitely debatable so just vote other and mention it if you think Curry, will re-do if there are enough thinking Curry (or someone else I left off).

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Kobe or Kareem. Wade was washed for half his run and Kobe/Kareem were a lot better than Pippen with essentially the same longevity. If we use 82 as a starting point I'll go Kareem. If we go with a later starting point I'll go Kobe.

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This kind of depends on your definition of "Robin." Is it who was better? I think young Kobe during LA's 3-peat was better than prime Scottie during Chicago's 2x 3-peat.

 

Kobe in the playoffs during LA's Championship years:

25.3/5.7/4.9/1.5/1.1  -   46/35/78, 52.8 TS%, 47.1 eFG%  -   21.6 PER, 110 ORtg, 103 DRtg

Scottie in the playoffs during Chicago's championship years:

19/7.8/5.5/2.1/1  -  48/28/72, 51.9 TS% 47.1 eFG%  -  19.3 PER, 109 ORtg, 101 DRtg

 

Kobe during LA's 3-peat was the better All-NBA player than Scottie was for either of Chicago's 3-peats: 

Kobe 2000-02: 1x All-NBA first team and 2x All-NBA second team

Scottie 1991-93: 1x All-NBA second team and 1x All-NBA third team

Scottie 1996-98: 1x All-NBA first team, 1x All-NBA second team, and 1x All-NBA third team

 

Scottie was the better All-Defensive player, but not by as much as you would think:

Kobe 2000-02: 1x All-Defensive first team and 2x All-Defensive first team

Scottie 1991-93: 2x All-Defensive first team and 1x All-Defensive second team

Scottie 1996-98: 3x All-Defensive first team

 

Or is it who better complimented their Batman? In that case I still think Kobe was a better compliment to Shaq's dominating inside presence.

Edited by dtait93
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52 minutes ago, amac said:

I don't really consider Kobe or Kareem as Robin's. So I feel like the conversation is who is #2 after Pippen. Maybe Havlicek or Wade (Lebron era)?

Kobe was definitely Shaq's robin. Shaq won 1 MVP to Kobe's 0, and 3 Finals MVP's to Kobe's 0

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1 hour ago, dtait93 said:

Kobe was definitely Shaq's robin. Shaq won 1 MVP to Kobe's 0, and 3 Finals MVP's to Kobe's 0

It's just not that interesting of a discussion to me if you include domineering players like prime Kobe. Lebron would be a great Robin if you put him on MJ's team.

Edited by amac
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2 hours ago, dtait93 said:

Kobe was definitely Shaq's robin. Shaq won 1 MVP to Kobe's 0, and 3 Finals MVP's to Kobe's 0

The first title run is really the only time Kobe was a robin. The next two rings he was no robin. Shaq dominated the finals which skews people's thinking, but Kobe was every bit as good in the Western Conference playoffs and flat out better in some series. Any player that averages 29/7/6/2/1 in a playoff run isn't a robin. And the next playoff run he averaged 27/6/5/1/1. This was more like a Steph and KD type of thing than being a true robin. 

So I don't really consider Kobe in this poll. And Kareem wasn't the same player after 82 but still really good. Not sure I would consider him a robin but I can see the case there. 

From Pippen, Wade and McHale then, I'd have to go Pippen. His impact, especially in the first three titles was too great. Wade wasn't a robin in 2011 and was flat out the dominating player in two of the four series. From 12-14 he was awesome in the regular season but the last two years his knees really started to bother him during the postseason runs. Wasn't terrible or anything but Pippen was more impactful than those versions of Wade.

Pippen wins the poll since I don't really consider Kareem or Kobe robins, especially the latter. 

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2 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Any player that averages 29/7/6/2/1 in a playoff run isn't a robin. And the next playoff run he averaged 27/6/5/1/1. This was more like a Steph and KD type of thing than being a true robin. 

It is when Shaq averaged 30.4/15.4/3.2/2.4 and a PER of 28.7 (Kobe 25). And the next playoff run 28.5/12.6/2.8/2.5 and a PER of 28.3 (Kobe 20.5). Kobe had his moments but Shaq was clearly the dominant driving force during their 3-peat. Kobe only comes somewhat close to Shaq in the 01 playoffs but even then the FMVP going to Shaq should tip the scales in anyone's mind. At the very least The Big Aristotle was clearly Batman in 2000 and 2002 with Kobe as his Robin sidekick - and that's not a diss, young Kobe was the best #2 sidekick of all time.

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17 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

It is when Shaq averaged 30.4/15.4/3.2/2.4 and a PER of 28.7 (Kobe 25). And the next playoff run 28.5/12.6/2.8/2.5 and a PER of 28.3 (Kobe 20.5). Kobe had his moments but Shaq was clearly the dominant driving force during their 3-peat. Kobe only comes somewhat close to Shaq in the 01 playoffs but even then the FMVP going to Shaq should tip the scales in anyone's mind. At the very least The Big Aristotle was clearly Batman in 2000 and 2002 with Kobe as his Robin sidekick - and that's not a diss, young Kobe was the best #2 sidekick of all time.

Again, Shaq was very dominant in the finals but in the West they were 1 and 1a. That was no robin type of performances from Kobe, especially when he was the one making the big plays down the stretch and had the ball in his hands in the clutch. Kobe was a top 3-5 player during that time. I do not consider that robin. It is like Steph and KD. You had Steph putting up 28/6/7/2 in the postseason yet Durant was the dominant force against the Cavs in 2017. But they were 1 and 1a all the way through. Just because one guy may be slightly better doesn't make it a Batman/Robin type of thing. 

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1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Again, Shaq was very dominant in the finals but in the West they were 1 and 1a. That was no robin type of performances from Kobe, especially when he was the one making the big plays down the stretch and had the ball in his hands in the clutch. Kobe was a top 3-5 player during that time. I do not consider that robin. It is like Steph and KD. You had Steph putting up 28/6/7/2 in the postseason yet Durant was the dominant force against the Cavs in 2017. But they were 1 and 1a all the way through. Just because one guy may be slightly better doesn't make it a Batman/Robin type of thing. 

I mean LIS, they were close in 2001 during their run through the West but The Diesel was clearly the man come Finals time. I think we agree there.

As for 2002 the only series that was close was the 2002 WCF against SAC (besides the 2000 WCF against POR, but you already gave 2000 up) and Shaq was the one to close out the Kings in OT with 6 points. Kobe only had 2 points which he only scored because he was fouled with just a couple seconds left with the game out of reach anyways. Shaq also had 7 points to Kobe's 4 in the 4th quarter. And Kobe was overall very inefficient that series. Wilt Chamberneezy was clearly better that playoff run.

2000 and 2002 Shaq>Kobe. 2001 Shaq>=Kobe

I will give Kobe credit for his performances against the Spurs both years though. He outperformed Shaq whenever they went up against them.

Edited by dtait93
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