Which QB gives you the best chance to win a SB in the next 5 years? Russell Wilson or Lamar Jackson

[ET80]

Russell Wilson, 15 times out of 10. Why this is a question is beyond me.

[Letsch80]

Even as a die hard Lamar fan I need to go Wilson here. Wilson has already won a Super Bowl so he has that pedigree and he is till relatively young and has plenty of good football left in him. However I could easily see this post flipped around at this time next year because Lamar and his team easily have the potential to win a Lombardi this season. I don't think there should be any argument at all to the Ravens being the much better team right now. Time will tell

[Letsch80]

8 hours ago, ET80 said:

Russell Wilson, 15 times out of 10. Why this is a question is beyond me.

Not sure what is so crazy about it.. Lamar is coming off the 2nd unanimous MVP season in NFL history and he has the much better team..

[ET80]

40 minutes ago, Letsch80 said:

Not sure what is so crazy about it.. Lamar is coming off the 2nd unanimous MVP season in NFL history and he has the much better team..

 

On 5/23/2020 at 12:15 AM, mdonnelly21 said:

JUST LOOK AT THEM AS A QB, not based on their team, coaching and organization. 

Strictly based on them as a QB. 

I'm not factoring team into it, per the instructions. I'm looking at each player on their own. 

Russell Wilson is taking a pretty bad Seahawks team as far as they can go. He's battle tested in the playoffs, has a SB ring and was a bad play call away from a 2nd (he shouldn't have been put in the position to not run the ball with Marshawn Lynch). Lamar Jackson is taking a good team to a great 14-2...but that 0-2 record in the playoffs is a black eye you can't put concealer on. It's a team effort, but he's not looking like an MVP calibur player in the playoffs - actually, he's been rather bad in those games.

Jackson is improving as a passer, but he's still not on the same level as Wilson - and that's not a knock on Jackson, it's a reminder that Wilson has some of the best arm talent in the NFL. Jackson is a better runner, a better runner than Wilson, but you're not winning SBs based on how well your QB runs; For all intents and purposes, we have yet to see a running QB win a SB since Steve Young in 1995 (who was surrounded by a HoF roster, light years better than that Ravens team from the last two seasons). We've seen an influx of QBs with great running talent, but the guys with arm talent tend to win it all (even if you remove Brady and his six SB victories). Perhaps the closest we've seen is none other than Wilson, who we've covered as having elite arm talent.

If you line it up at the QB level and keep it to playoffs... it's no contest whatsoever. That's not a knock on Jackson, it's a reminder that Wilson is just that proven and that elite. For the record, I'd put Wilson ahead of any QB not named Mahomes - including my guy Watson, that Rodgers guy in Green Bay, Big Ben and his two rings, etc.

[Letsch80]

23 minutes ago, ET80 said:

 

I'm not factoring team into it, per the instructions. I'm looking at each player on their own. 

Russell Wilson is taking a pretty bad Seahawks team as far as they can go. He's battle tested in the playoffs, has a SB ring and was a bad play call away from a 2nd (he shouldn't have been put in the position to not run the ball with Marshawn Lynch). Lamar Jackson is taking a good team to a great 14-2...but that 0-2 record in the playoffs is a black eye you can't put concealer on. It's a team effort, but he's not looking like an MVP calibur player in the playoffs - actually, he's been rather bad in those games.

Jackson is improving as a passer, but he's still not on the same level as Wilson - and that's not a knock on Jackson, it's a reminder that Wilson has some of the best arm talent in the NFL. Jackson is a better runner, a better runner than Wilson, but you're not winning SBs based on how well your QB runs; For all intents and purposes, we have yet to see a running QB win a SB since Steve Young in 1995 (who was surrounded by a HoF roster, light years better than that Ravens team from the last two seasons). We've seen an influx of QBs with great running talent, but the guys with arm talent tend to win it all (even if you remove Brady and his six SB victories). Perhaps the closest we've seen is none other than Wilson, who we've covered as having elite arm talent.

If you line it up at the QB level and keep it to playoffs... it's no contest whatsoever. That's not a knock on Jackson, it's a reminder that Wilson is just that proven and that elite. For the record, I'd put Wilson ahead of any QB not named Mahomes - including my guy Watson, that Rodgers guy in Green Bay, Big Ben and his two rings, etc.

I totally agree with the arm talent of Wilson and I definitely agree that he should win this poll regardless.. Wilson is an 8 year veteran and should most definitely be ahead of a guy who just finished his first full season as a starting quarterback. My whole point is that Lamar is going to improve and get better each year because of the type of kid he is and his ridiculous work ethic. This is just a post we should revisit in 2 or 3 years is all I'm saying..

[ET80]

8 minutes ago, Letsch80 said:

This is just a post we should revisit in 2 or 3 years is all I'm saying..

I'm all for that. Right now, I'm going Wilson - that could change, we'll see how it plays out.

[NYJets4716]

My opinion is not shared and I understand that which is fine. But Wilson is the better QB, he makes guys better around him and can make big time throws.  

Jackson is a electric athlete, but I just don't think his passing is as good as the stats show. He got easy throws because of his running and system, if teams figure out how to slow his running which will be hard, hes not really killing you as a passer.  Wilson can kill you from throwing or running.  Jackson's entire game is based on a running system and his ability to domminate with his legs. Just my opinion. 

Plus Wilson won a SB before. 

[Letsch80]

5 minutes ago, NYJets4716 said:

My opinion is not shared and I understand that which is fine. But Wilson is the better QB, he makes guys better around him and can make big time throws.  

Jackson is a electric athlete, but I just don't think his passing is as good as the stats show. He got easy throws because of his running and system, if teams figure out how to slow his running which will be hard, hes not really killing you as a passer.  Wilson can kill you from throwing or running.  Jackson's entire game is based on a running system and his ability to domminate with his legs. Just my opinion. 

Plus Wilson won a SB before. 

The passing narrative is a bit tired at this point.. The guys made a GIGANTIC leap from year one to year two with his passing, also as someone who watched every single snap of his last year I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that he can make any throw in the book. Of course he will function better when he can maximize his athletic ability, that's what makes him a unanimous MVP of this league. I'm just tired of everyone saying the league will catch up to him and not for once thinking that Lamar can adjust to those adjustments. The guys is humble and extremely hard working, I will always bet on that kid!!

As I said before though, yes Russel Wilson can be trusted more right now and should win this vote but lets not forget that Lamar has started only 25 games and has won 20 of them all while being the MVP of the league. With another year or two like that and a bit of playoff success this conversation become a bit different.

[MSURacerDT55]

5 hours ago, Letsch80 said:

Even as a die hard Lamar fan I need to go Wilson here. Wilson has already won a Super Bowl so he has that pedigree and he is till relatively young and has plenty of good football left in him. However I could easily see this post flipped around at this time next year because Lamar and his team easily have the potential to win a Lombardi this season. I don't think there should be any argument at all to the Ravens being the much better team right now. Time will tell

Bravo to you for being impartial and answering a BLACK and WHITE question and not trying to make it GREY with hypotheticals

Edited May 28, 2020 by MSURacerDT55

[Drachma]

On 5/26/2020 at 11:43 AM, Ray Reed said:

I could find you literally 50+ quotes from this website after the 2018 season that said the exact same thing about Lamar after the Chargers playoff game in 2018. Like, the exact same quote. Word for word - just swap out "titans" for "chargers" and "2020" for "2019". And then Lamar went out and won the 2nd ever unanimous MVP in his first year starting at 22 years old in a year people were guaranteeing he'd be "figured out" by the rest of the league.

 

This thread question is Russell Wilson. I won't pretend I've seen enough from Lamar's 22 career starts to say he's a better quarterback than Russell Wilson - that's silly. And usually the better quaterback gives you a better chance at a super bowl.

But I have seen enough from him to know that every "Jackson is a gimmick that will be figured out eventually, obviously" comment I see on here - on a near-daily basis -proves just how myopic at best and ignorant at worst 95% of this website is when it comes to football. 

 

 

 

 

Okay. Then why is it that he's failed miserably in his play-off games? Did you overlook the topic of this thread? The question posed was regarding Jackson Vs. Wilson on the odds of them winning a Superbowl between the two next. 

Pretty sure you have to win play-off games to advance towards a Superbowl. So far he's been awful in the first two games he's played. 3 TD passes, 3 INT's. 51% completion percentage. Sacked for a handful of losses. 2 lost fumbles as well. 

Not saying he can't overcome those odds. Plenty of great QB's have started off poorly in the play-off's and turned it around at some point in the clutch. Most famously Peyton Manning. As far as teams figuring him out? You'll see. 

He's only had a whopping 22 career starts. If you pay attention to the prospects coming into the NFL, especially at LB and QB? They're getting lighter and faster. Teams will start scheming better and getting more creative against his style of play. Happens to the best of them. 

Until he shows that he can carry a team from the pocket in the big games he's going to be perceived as a one tricky pony that has enough juice to get you to the hill but not enough horse power to get you over the hill. He can prove us wrong of course. But until that day comes? It is what it is. 

[Letsch80]

2 hours ago, Drachma said:

Okay. Then why is it that he's failed miserably in his play-off games? Did you overlook the topic of this thread? The question posed was regarding Jackson Vs. Wilson on the odds of them winning a Superbowl between the two next. 

Pretty sure you have to win play-off games to advance towards a Superbowl. So far he's been awful in the first two games he's played. 3 TD passes, 3 INT's. 51% completion percentage. Sacked for a handful of losses. 2 lost fumbles as well. 

Not saying he can't overcome those odds. Plenty of great QB's have started off poorly in the play-off's and turned it around at some point in the clutch. Most famously Peyton Manning. As far as teams figuring him out? You'll see. 

He's only had a whopping 22 career starts. If you pay attention to the prospects coming into the NFL, especially at LB and QB? They're getting lighter and faster. Teams will start scheming better and getting more creative against his style of play. Happens to the best of them. 

Until he shows that he can carry a team from the pocket in the big games he's going to be perceived as a one tricky pony that has enough juice to get you to the hill but not enough horse power to get you over the hill. He can prove us wrong of course. But until that day comes? It is what it is. 

I hate how all the blame in the playoffs fall at Lamar's feet.. That was an epic team failure against the Titans not a Lamar failure,  the guy put up 500+ yards of total offense for god sakes.. The Ravens were dominated in the trenches for the first time all year long.. The game plan was god awful on offense for the Ravens, they abandoned what made them successful all year and ran the ball 9 stinking times.. The Titans beat the Ravens that day,  Lamar didn't lose the game on his own was he is best? Nope but he was a 3 or 4 dropped passes away from getting into a rhythm and flipping the script.. It's tough to win in the playoffs and Lamar knows it and will build off. it.. 

[Soko]

I am going to change the rules of the thread in order to make this a competitive debate

[Chuck80]

On 5/27/2020 at 9:37 PM, SaveOurSonics said:

100% agree with this.

As much as people want to convince themselves otherwise, Lamar Jackson is the type of talent that defenses cannot consistently figure out. It's very similar to Michael Vick. When you have an athlete and mismatch weapon like that on offense, they will exploit the opposition's faults. 

But ya, Wilson is the fairly easy answer to this question. If he continues on this trajectory, he'll likely retire as a top 10 QB all-time. You can't assume that will be true of Lamar. 

Russell to me is a hall of famer and yes he literally has hardly any consistent offensive threat besides himself and they constantly get in the playoffs and near Superbowls yearly and he's putting up Numbers also 

 

But yeah I'm taking Wilson I probably take him over many other elite QBs , 

 

My list would be , Wilson , Mahomes , Brady and Roethlisberger as in the most clutch QBs in the NFL

[wackywabbit]

On 5/26/2020 at 9:35 AM, Drachma said:

I think Jackson's gimmick will come to a hault in 2020. Defenses will look at what happened when they played the Titans in the play-off's and start figuring out a way to adjust to his running ability. 

 This HAS to be satire right?

There's only two QBs who I think are better individual bets for the next 5 years than Lamar. But, one of them is the other guy in this thread.

[diamondbull424]

On 5/29/2020 at 8:19 PM, Yin-Yang said:

I am going to change the rules of the thread in order to make this a competitive debate

You didn’t add rules... I’m confused by this, checked the OP to see if rules were added as well but they’re the same vague notions as before. Or is this some sort of satire referring to something specific?