Bears LB Danny Trevathan is Suspended for 2 Games

[AlexGreen#20]

When you're:

• Late
• Your target is defenseless
• You led with the crown of your helmet
• You initiate helmet to helmet contact
• An impartial audience would deem it intentional and malicious

You deserve to get suspended

[Pugger]

30 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Then be consistent, suspend sbybody who leads with the crown of their helmet...but you know that's ridiculous, especially if it happens to somebody on your team

If that would put a stop to it, then so be it.

[Dome]

4 hours ago, DingoLadd said:

It depends on the rule mate.

Username checks out. Thank you very much for giving me an entire post to read internally with an Australian accent. ??

 

3 hours ago, RamPackFan said:

relays a horrible example of how football/techniques are played (for the youth watching at home).

It does, but as a youth coach I know that addressing these hits in practice and benching kids who are reckless quickly overpowers any silly notions they have about these dangerous hits.

If any youth (really any level) coaches are encouraging these types of hits they should be fired. USA football is making good progress with their Heads Up program, but parents really need to be made aware too. The biggest problems we had was with friggin former jock dads telling their kids that the Heads Up program is wrong and they’ll show them how you’re supposed to tackle.

[Kip Smithers]

1 hour ago, Pugger said:

If that would put a stop to it, then so be it.

You say this now until it becomes your player and where the degrees and results are different because that's what is happening here. It's not so much the hit, it's what the hit resulted in for Adams. No way in heck you guys would be clamouring for a suspension if he hit him where he intended to. What you want a stop to are unnecessary hits to the head on s defenseless is player it's not so much leading with the crown of the helmet.

 

[Packerraymond]

26 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

You say this now until it becomes your player and where the degrees and results are different because that's what is happening here. It's not so much the hit, it's what the hit resulted in for Adams. No way in heck you guys would be clamouring for a suspension if he hit him where he intended to. What you want a stop to are unnecessary hits to the head on s defenseless is player it's not so much leading with the crown of the helmet.

 

You can't have intentions to hit a player anywhere when you drop your head multiple steps before contact with the player. You have to see your target to have any intent. His intent was a kill shot using the crown of his helmet. Didn't care where it landed or he would've used his eyes.

[Dome]

The reason I say two games (without knowing his history) is steep is because OBJ got one game for his hit on Norman. Has Trevathan been suspended before?

Beckhams hit was just as dangerous and IMO the intent is even less debatable than Trevathan's hit. Not that there's much room for debate on Trevathan's hit in my eyes. 

[Kip Smithers]

4 hours ago, domepatrol91 said:

The reason I say two games (without knowing his history) is steep is because OBJ got one game for his hit on Norman. Has Trevathan been suspended before?

Beckhams hit was just as dangerous and IMO the intent is even less debatable than Trevathan's hit. Not that there's much room for debate on Trevathan's hit in my eyes. 

See I understand why OBJ was suspended because I saw the intent and on top of all the other histrionics in that game, he deserved a suspension. 

5 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

You can't have intentions to hit a player anywhere when you drop your head multiple steps before contact with the player. You have to see your target to have any intent. His intent was a kill shot using the crown of his helmet. Didn't care where it landed or he would've used his eyes.

Actually you can. He didn't exactly launch himself high. He ducked his head and lowered himself so that he doesn't target the head. You don't have to see your target. You intent comes from your initial action. Do you know many players go for a hard hit and miss? You mean to tell me all those missile hits are guys aiming for the head? 

[Spartacus]

3 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

See I understand why OBJ was suspended because I saw the intent and on top of all the other histrionics in that game, he deserved a suspension. 

Actually you can. He didn't exactly launch himself high. He ducked his head and lowered himself so that he doesn't target the head. You don't have to see your target. You intent comes from your initial action. Do you know many players go for a hard hit and miss? You mean to tell me all those missile hits are guys aiming for the head? 

That's the key though. Its not so much that he wasn't trying but that he didn't follow proper technique and it set himself up for leading with the crown. Its akin to a drunk driver using the excuse "I was going under the speed limit" when he was in an accident.  Doesn't matter what he intended to do but what he did do. 

I think 2 games is steep and I think it gets dropped to 1 upon appeal and I think that's pretty fair. Going forward this is going to be the new norm so players better get used to it. 

[Kip Smithers]

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

That's the key though. Its not so much that he wasn't trying but that he didn't follow proper technique and it set himself up for leading with the crown. Its akin to a drunk driver using the excuse "I was going under the speed limit" when he was in an accident.  Doesn't matter what he intended to do but what he did do. 

I think 2 games is steep and I think it gets dropped to 1 upon appeal and I think that's pretty fair. Going forward this is going to be the new norm so players better get used to it. 

The only way I think he warrants a suspension is if he set out to hit him in his head, which I expect a reasonable person to agree with. Listen don't get me wrong I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished a flag and a fine is more than enough for me.

The analogy you described is not apropos here because I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished I'm saying that steepness of the punishment is derived from Adams reaction and where he ended up hitting him which isn't a fair analysis of the play.

[Spartacus]

5 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

The only way I think he warrants a suspension is if he set out to hit him in his head, which I expect a reasonable person to agree with. Listen don't get me wrong I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished a flag and a fine is more than enough for me.

The analogy you described is not apropos here because I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished I'm saying that steepness of the punishment is derived from Adams reaction and where he ended up hitting him which isn't a fair analysis of the play.

How would you confirm this? Its totally impossible unless you have a Charles Martin after the play type hit. You or I don't know what Trev was thinking on that play. All you can do is when an obvious play like that is made, review after the fact, and confirm if the player tried to use proper technique. In this case Trevathan had his head and hands down so he couldn't see what he was hitting nor did it look like he was even trying to wrap up. There are really only two options then:

1. Fine players

- I think this option is fine if it shows a player trying to use proper technique but failing to do so or on a bang bang type of play. 

2. Suspend players. 

- I think this is fine both if the hit is unnecessary and shows a disregard to proper tackling. Both of which I would say happened to a degree during this play. 

If your really serious about player safety which one do you think would make the players more likely to pay more attention?  I thought 2 games was a little steep myself but I feel 1 game for obvious helmet to helmet tackles is more than fair with stacking penalties for re-offenders. 

[Packerraymond]

6 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

See I understand why OBJ was suspended because I saw the intent and on top of all the other histrionics in that game, he deserved a suspension. 

Actually you can. He didn't exactly launch himself high. He ducked his head and lowered himself so that he doesn't target the head. You don't have to see your target. You intent comes from your initial action. Do you know many players go for a hard hit and miss? You mean to tell me all those missile hits are guys aiming for the head? 

You answered your own question, why do they miss? Because they no longer can see their target, which means they are incapable of aiming. 

I see the "well he ducked at the last minute" excuse enough that it isn't an excuse. It is expected that these guys will move, that's why you need to see your target. The type of squarely placed helmet to helmet hit that occured I haven't seen anything that severe. Im absolutely OK with that hit being a suspension any and every time.

[Kip Smithers]

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

How would you confirm this? Its totally impossible unless you have a Charles Martin after the play type hit. You or I don't know what Trev was thinking on that play. All you can do is when an obvious play like that is made, review after the fact, and confirm if the player tried to use proper technique. In this case Trevathan had his head and hands down so he couldn't see what he was hitting nor did it look like he was even trying to wrap up. There are really only two options then:

1. Fine players

- I think this option is fine if it shows a player trying to use proper technique but failing to do so or on a bang bang type of play. 

2. Suspend players. 

- I think this is fine both if the hit is unnecessary and shows a disregard to proper tackling. Both of which I would say happened to a degree during this play. 

If your really serious about player safety which one do you think would make the players more likely to pay more attention?  I thought 2 games was a little steep myself but I feel 1 game for obvious helmet to helmet tackles is more than fair with stacking penalties for re-offenders. 

Because of the of the height at which he moved launched his helmet. Just like when somebody goes for the numbers but ends up at the leg. I don't know definitively, but I think have reasonable judgement as to what he was trying to do because this hit isn't uncommon. The result was, but the not so much and he has no history of such behaviour. So I think I am very reasoned to say he wasn't aiming for the head. "He wasn't looking at what he going", he tried to deliver a crushing hit and in that like many other you don't know what it will result in. 

 

OBJ got one game, not because only because of the hit but everything leading up to that and his one was more egregious. But why he didn't get more games? Because Norman didn't get carted off nor was he motionless on the field. 

Both methods are effective. You get a fine and a flag. The NFL give an automatic 15 yard penalty for helmet to helmet contact. No suspension and players have managed to adjust without having the need to suspend people 

[Kip Smithers]

51 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

You answered your own question, why do they miss? Because they no longer can see their target, which means they are incapable of aiming. 

I see the "well he ducked at the last minute" excuse enough that it isn't an excuse. It is expected that these guys will move, that's why you need to see your target. The type of squarely placed helmet to helmet hit that occured I haven't seen anything that severe. Im absolutely OK with that hit being a suspension any and every time.

Yes that's why they miss. Which makes that act reckless. But I'm not saying it ain't reckless. It doesn't demonstrate intent to injure. Which is a key factor into handing out suspensions. 

Even if he had seen the target, there's no way he can adjust to that due to the speed he was running at. So he likely would've hit him there anyway. So combine the speed of defender and the target moving it will lead to a devastating hit

Everybody remembers Kam Chancellors hit on Vernon Davis, nobody back then thought that should be a suspension worthy hit. Why? 

[Soko]

@Packerraymond

How can you confidently say it was a “kill shot” if by your own volition, “you have to see your target to have any intent”? He couldn’t have had the intent to injure if he dropped his eyes and couldn’t see his target (according to you). That doesn’t make sense. 

 

[JBURGE]

If Clay Matthews did that I would support a 2 game suspension.