Kamara next year

[Woz]

4 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Until proven wrong, let me dream. Right now I said I'd sign him as Free Agent to help this Team. I'm not trading a 1-3 pick for him. Unless I can get him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. 

Not trying to shatter your happy place, but ask yourself these questions honestly:

1. Do you believe New Orleans will not sign him to a long term deal?
2. That if New Orleans doesn't want to fork over the money for the long term deal that they won't franchise tag Kamara?
3. That if they franchise him that the Saints won't demand at least a first for him?
4. That if he isn't franchised, he isn't going to be the most sought after player in free agency?
5. That in the case that he hits free agency he'll be able to decide where he goes, so why would he come to Washington, a team that is probably at least two years away at least from truly competing for a title shot?
6. If you're answer to #5 is money thrown at him by Snyder, do you have any concerns for what said contract might do Washington's cap given that players like Jonathan Allen, Daron Payne, and others will be in line for their paydays?

Don't get me wrong, having Kamara on the roster would be incredibly wonderful. But do any of those scenarios feel plausible to you? As I have said many times before, running back is the single most fungible position in football. Investing heavily in that position (either in terms of draft picks or in contracts) is foolish since you can get adequate to good returns on cheap players at the position.

[Skins212689]

10 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Cool. No problem

I hope he is an UFA. But out of curiosity, what would you pay him? What contract #s?

The reasonable amount for a Starting RB. He gets you 1000 plus yards in the passing and running game combined and I'll end it there. The other stuff is BS compared to putting my Franchise in position to Win the Super Bowl. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Skins212689

[Skins212689]

4 minutes ago, Woz said:

Not trying to shatter your happy place, but ask yourself these questions honestly:

1. Do you believe New Orleans will not sign him to a long term deal?
2. That if New Orleans doesn't want to fork over the money for the long term deal that they won't franchise tag Kamara?
3. That if they franchise him that the Saints won't demand at least a first for him?
4. That if he isn't franchised, he isn't going to be the most sought after player in free agency?
5. That in the case that he hits free agency he'll be able to decide where he goes, so why would he come to Washington, a team that is probably at least two years away at least from truly competing for a title shot?
6. If you're answer to #5 is money thrown at him by Snyder, do you have any concerns for what said contract might do Washington's cap given that players like Jonathan Allen, Daron Payne, and others will be in line for their paydays?

Don't get me wrong, having Kamara on the roster would be incredibly wonderful. But do any of those scenarios feel plausible to you? As I have said many times before, running back is the single most fungible position in football. Investing heavily in that position (either in terms of draft picks or in contracts) is foolish since you can get adequate to good returns on cheap players at the position.

If he becomes available New Orleans proved he wasn't as valuable to them as maybe to me. His signing won't effect the resigning of Allen, Payne, or any other core members of my Super Bowl team. You have to Pay to Win the Game sometimes. With Dan's money I'm winning to Pay to put my franchise in position to Win Big not be apart of Sex Scandals. 

 

[Woz]

1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

The reasonable amount for a Starting RB.

What qualifies a "reasonable amount?" You do realize he almost assuredly will want to set the next record for RB contracts, right? As a percentage of cap space, how much would you allocate to Kamara?

1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

The other stuff is BS compared to putting my Franchise in position to Win the Super Bowl. 

Do you believe Washington is just one player away from winning the Super Bowl?

[Woz]

1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

If he becomes available New Orleans proved he wasn't as valuable to them as maybe to me.

Keep in mind, a player who is franchise tagged but his team is open to trade offers is functionally "available" if another team can make his original team say "yeah, we'll take that."

It's just that entry fee may be awfully steep. I would assume for Kamara that the price starts with at least one first round pick.

1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

His signing won't effect the resigning of Allen, Payne, or any other core members of my Super Bowl team.

Why not? Any cap space you allocate to Kamara is cap space you cannot allocate to another player. Sure, maybe you can work around keeping Allen and other core players, but what if that means letting a guy like Apke walk, sort of akin to when Washington let Antonio Pierce or Ryan Clark go back in the day? They weren't "core" players, but they were glue guys who made the whole defense work. Another guy was Lorenzo Alexander.

Allocating a big chunk of cap space (and let's be honest with ourselves, that's what Kamara is going to require) to a RB is highly risky since they don't usually pan out in terms of the contract you give them.

1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

With Dan's money I'm winning to Pay to put my franchise in position to Win Big

Spending cap space on big money free agents hasn't shown to help teams "win big." I'd argue it has actually been a net negative for most franchises to chase the top tier free agents.

[turtle28]

@WozI don’t think Skins212689 understands the salary cap and how things exactly work, which is fine, but it creates a problem when discussing future players we are going to have to pay who may be core players vs signing other teams FAs.

As we all know, if you’re going to give Kamara a deal paying him on average $15-20 mil a year that means that Scherff May be gone or in the future it means you might not have the $ to re-sign Haskins - if he pans out - McLaurin if he pans out, Christian if he proves he’s a good LT this year, Jon Allen, Da’Ron Payne or Ioannidis, Apke if he proves to be the answer at FS, Darby or Moreau if they have a good year opposite Fuller. 
 

Eventually paying a 2nd & 3rd down but not 1st down back like Kamara that much money means you may not be able to keep Sweat or Young several years from now.

As we know, every free agent signing and every player of your own that you re-sign has salary cap repercussions for the future and it could me you can or can’t re-sign your own drafted and developed players, but I don’t think he understands that.

Edited September 6, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

8 hours ago, Woz said:

What qualifies a "reasonable amount?" You do realize he almost assuredly will want to set the next record for RB contracts, right? As a percentage of cap space, how much would you allocate to Kamara?

Do you believe Washington is just one player away from winning the Super Bowl?

The 15-16 million for the RB. While the QB is around 40 million. That's how the Market works. If the Saints or Washington doesn't pay him, Somebody Else Will. 

 

[Skins212689]

8 hours ago, Woz said:

Keep in mind, a player who is franchise tagged but his team is open to trade offers is functionally "available" if another team can make his original team say "yeah, we'll take that."

It's just that entry fee may be awfully steep. I would assume for Kamara that the price starts with at least one first round pick.

Why not? Any cap space you allocate to Kamara is cap space you cannot allocate to another player. Sure, maybe you can work around keeping Allen and other core players, but what if that means letting a guy like Apke walk, sort of akin to when Washington let Antonio Pierce or Ryan Clark go back in the day? They weren't "core" players, but they were glue guys who made the whole defense work. Another guy was Lorenzo Alexander.

Allocating a big chunk of cap space (and let's be honest with ourselves, that's what Kamara is going to require) to a RB is highly risky since they don't usually pan out in terms of the contract you give them.

Spending cap space on big money free agents hasn't shown to help teams "win big." I'd argue it has actually been a net negative for most franchises to chase the top tier free agents.

Getting Desean Jackson helped Garcon. Getting Norman worked out his 1st 2 seasons here. 

Being cheap hasn't gotten this team a Playoff or Super Bowl Win. I guess your fine with that. 

[Thaiphoon]

10 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

The reasonable amount for a Starting RB. He gets you 1000 plus yards in the passing and running game combined and I'll end it there. The other stuff is BS compared to putting my Franchise in position to Win the Super Bowl. 

I want #s. What contract would you give him?

[Thaiphoon]

2 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Getting Desean Jackson helped Garcon. Getting Norman worked out his 1st 2 seasons here. 

Being cheap hasn't gotten this team a Playoff or Super Bowl Win. I guess your fine with that. 

Neither has overspending. 

Cap management is more than just being cheap (or overspending). It's spending the $$ on the positions where it will do the most good for the roster.

RB is (as everyone seems to understand but you), the single easiest position to replace a player and still field a good offense. You don't have to pay a RB $15-20m AAV to have a good offense. The 2nd tier RBs are gonna give you a nice return and lave you with more cap space where you can spend it on the QB, or OL, or WR, or the defense to keep more valuable players.

[turtle28]

7 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

I want #s. What contract would you give him?

Kamara wants to be the highest paid RB in the NFL or near it and he’s not proven he can hold up and be an every down back like McCaffery, Elliot, Derek Henry, Le’Veon Bell, Dalvin Cook, Aaron Jones, Nick Chub, Joe Mixon, Josh Jacobs, and others. He’s not been a true starting RB where he’s a 1st down back and short yardage back like the others, that’s another problem with paying him to be one. He shouldn’t be paid for something he isn’t, paying him that kind of money costs you another starter somewhere else. Now, if we could get Kamara on around $10 million on avg per year whenever he’s a FA then I’d consider it, but reportedly he turned down a deal like that for the Super Bowl contending saints already which was a mistake on his part IMO.

Edited September 6, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

1 minute ago, Thaiphoon said:

Neither has overspending. 

Cap management is more than just being cheap (or overspending). It's spending the $$ on the positions where it will do the most good for the roster.

RB is (as everyone seems to understand but you), the single easiest position to replace a player and still field a good offense. You don't have to pay a RB $15-20m AAV to have a good offense. The 2nd tier RBs are gonna give you a nice return and lave you with more cap space where you can spend it on the QB, or OL, or WR, or the defense to keep more valuable players.

Sir just say you wouldn't pay him. I'm paying him. Their will still be enough money to sign other Key guys. I wouldn't ONLY sign Kamara. 

[Skins212689]

3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Kamara wants to be the highest paid RB in the NFL or near it and he’s not proven he can hold up and be an every down back like McCaffery, Elliot, Derek Henry, Le’Veon Bell and others.

He gives a offense close to 1400 yards combined in the running and passing game. 

[Thaiphoon]

5 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Kamara wants to be the highest paid RB in the NFL or near it and he’s not proven he can hold up and be an every down back like McCaffery, Elliot, Derek Henry, Le’Veon Bell, Dalvin Cook, Aaron Jones, Nick Chub, Joe Mixon, Josh Jacobs, and others. He’s not been a true starting RB where he’s a 1st down back and short yardage back like the others, that’s another problem with paying him to be one. He shouldn’t be paid for something he isn’t, paying him that kind of money costs you another starter somewhere else. Now, if we could get Kamara on around $10 million on avg per year whenever he’s a FA then I’d consider it, but reportedly he turned down a deal like that for the Super Bowl contending saints already which was a mistake on his part IMO.

Thanks. But I'm asking him what #s he would throw at Kamara in order to get him on the roster.

[Thaiphoon]

4 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Sir just say you wouldn't pay him. I'm paying him. Their will still be enough money to sign other Key guys. I wouldn't ONLY sign Kamara. 

Still no answer to the question. 

What

Contract

Would

You 

Offer

Him

 

Be specific about the following:

Years

Signing Bonus

AAV

Total Contract

You want to pay him? Let's see what you would pay him.