ET80 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 minute ago, pwny said: But nobody, literally anywhere, is saying he underperformed last year despite the fact that an identical performance from another player is being dogged. Nobody is specifically using the word "underperformed" but there's a clear understanding that he was not his normal self: https://saintswire.usatoday.com/2020/08/11/nfl-saints-alvin-kamara-injury-report-torn-mcl/ And I was wrong - it was a torn MCL. That is absolutely going to impact his performance, I'm shocked he even played tbh. 3 minutes ago, pwny said: If last year's performance is acceptable if you slap the name Alvin Kamara on it, why is it not acceptable if the name reads Leonard Fournette? I think it's because last year was not on brand for either guy - 76 receptions for Fournette nearly doubles his career numbers to that point. Likewise, the YPC from Kamara is nearly four yards below his standard, due to that knee. Both are anomalies, neither stat line is representative of how these guys are in normal situations. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drained Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 9 hours ago, dante9876 said: Didn't he have like 1700 total yards last year. Yeah he had a great season. I think the issue was his attitude. He isn't getting RB1 touches anywhere else if they werent able to trade him but I think that is fine, he should share the backfield, two more seasons in JAX and he would be rusty and washed as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamblinMan99 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Don't understand why everybody's shocked over this. Fournette was on a multiple year down slope. Yes, his 2019 season statistically was actually pretty good, but he's never really had the eye of the jaguar (no pun intended). He's talked a lot about having careers other than football, and he's been one of the more injury prone players in the league. Even with the injuries, I don't think he's really had the motivation to exceed his potential. He absolutely has the talent to be in the NFL, and I thought he was going to be the next Fred Taylor when he was drafted. I can't see him being on a roster in the next 3 years at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said: ummm...... The fact that one of them is well known for being a really good receiving back with great production in years he wasn't hampered by injury and one is Leonard Fournette? The eye in the sky and past production tell you that you're wrong, but you keep going. Fournette is no longer a Jag. No need to keep hyping him up. Yeah, Kamara's past performance is indicative of him being a better player. No one is disputing that. But his performance specifically last season, not a single person is saying "he didn't have a productive year". But the same stats from Fournette, and it's unproductive and invaluable. All you gotta say is Kamara wasn't good last year, and we can move on. But nobody is willing to say that ever when it's brought up. Not hyping up Fournette either. I've been a detractor of his for quite a while. He's not a great teammate, doesn't follow protocols, apparently sleeps in meetings, and has an attitude problem, all on top of being a piss poor runner in anything resembling a modern offensive structure. It doesn't mean he doesn't have value as a receiving back, though. Edited August 31, 2020 by pwny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, ET80 said: Both are anomalies, neither stat line is representative of how these guys are in normal situations. They're both anomalies, sure. My issue is last year was considered good for Kamara, but bad for Fournette despite them producing almost exactly the same. Either they're both bad receiving seasons or they're both good. It literally doesn't make sense for someone to say that Kamara was good as a receiver in 2019, but Fournette wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drained Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, pwny said: Not hyping up Fournette either. I've been a detractor of his for quite a while. He's not a great teammate, doesn't follow protocols, apparently sleeps in meetings, and has an attitude problem, all on top of being a piss poor runner in anything resembling a modern offensive structure. It doesn't mean he doesn't have value as a receiving back, though. Has value as a power back too. Guess I watch them play against us enough to figure out that he isn't really good when it comes to anything other than just running down the middle and breaking through a hole but he does that really well. He still had 1,100 yards last year rushing though. That doesn't mean he was good. He lost the game for his own team a few times (week 2 vs the Texans comes to mind for me ofc) Edited August 31, 2020 by Drained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, pwny said: They're both anomalies, sure. My issue is last year was considered good for Kamara, but bad for Fournette despite them producing almost exactly the same. Either they're both bad receiving seasons or they're both good. It literally doesn't make sense for someone to say that Kamara was good as a receiver in 2019, but Fournette wasn't. That’s not really the case at all, and most people acknowledge that. I’m a teacher so I was home all summer...every time Kamara was brought up on ESPN or NFL Network people absolutely acknowledged that last year wasn’t a “typical” year for Kamara. All the fantasy shows/sites have referenced that Kamara had a “down” year last year for his standards. Once the injury was revealed 90% of football fans were like “yeah, that makes sense”... Where do you keep getting the bolded? Edited August 31, 2020 by Ray Reed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, pwny said: But his performance specifically last season, not a single person is saying "he didn't have a productive year". Granted, these are Fantasy outlooks and articles specific to New Orleans... But that's the one thing people are focused on: https://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2020/2/20/21139037/exploring-the-factors-in-alvin-kamara-down-receiving-year-latavius-murray-new-orleans-saints https://nflspinzone.com/2020/08/14/alvin-kamara-make-or-break-2020/ https://www.espn.com/blog/new-orleans-saints/post/_/id/33312/how-much-better-will-a-healthy-alvin-kamara-be-for-saints-in-2020 I mean, not only did they talk about it as a down year - it's THE narrative on Kamara right now, whether it be how one should approach him in Fantasy to how this downturn impacts his contract value. I don't know if you're looking for specific phrases such as underperformed, but I think anyone reading these articles can assume nobody thought highly of Kamara's performance compared to his standard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Just now, ET80 said: Granted, these are Fantasy outlooks and articles specific to New Orleans... But that's the one thing people are focused on: https://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2020/2/20/21139037/exploring-the-factors-in-alvin-kamara-down-receiving-year-latavius-murray-new-orleans-saints https://nflspinzone.com/2020/08/14/alvin-kamara-make-or-break-2020/ https://www.espn.com/blog/new-orleans-saints/post/_/id/33312/how-much-better-will-a-healthy-alvin-kamara-be-for-saints-in-2020 I mean, not only did they talk about it as a down year - it's THE narrative on Kamara right now, whether it be how one should approach him in Fantasy to how this downturn impacts his contract value. I don't know if you're looking for specific phrases such as underperformed, but I think anyone reading these articles can assume nobody thought highly of Kamara's performance compared to his standard. I'm not asking for a comparison to his standard. Obviously it wasn't up to his standard from his first two years. If Fournette's season was bad, why is no one willing to say Kamara's season was bad? Not "not as good as he normally does," but bad. You don't need to find me articles or anything, you can just tell me Kamara was bad last year and I'll move on. But nobody is willing to say he was bad, but instead that "it wasn't the elite season we're used to". So I'm just asking, why are we so wholly able to commit to the idea that Fournette was still bad last year as a receiver, but Kamara is just "not quite up to his normal standards"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, pwny said: They're both anomalies, sure. My issue is last year was considered good for Kamara, but bad for Fournette despite them producing almost exactly the same I think most - if not all - are uniform in thinking Kamara wasn't good. Fournette was unexpected (which isn't good or bad... it's unexpected). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Just now, pwny said: I'm not asking for a comparison to his standard. Obviously it wasn't up to his standard from his first two years. If Fournette's season was bad, why is no one willing to say Kamara's season was bad? Not "not as good as he normally does," but bad. You don't need to find me articles or anything, you can just tell me Kamara was bad last year and I'll move on. But nobody is willing to say he was bad, but instead that "it wasn't the elite season we're used to". So I'm just asking, why are we so wholly able to commit to the idea that Fournette was still bad last year as a receiver, but Kamara is just "not quite up to his normal standards"? Just now, ET80 said: I think most - if not all - are uniform in thinking Kamara wasn't good. Fournette was unexpected (which isn't good or bad... it's unexpected). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, pwny said: I'm not asking for a comparison to his standard. Obviously it wasn't up to his standard from his first two years. If Fournette's season was bad, why is no one willing to say Kamara's season was bad? Not "not as good as he normally does," but bad. You don't need to find me articles or anything, you can just tell me Kamara was bad last year and I'll move on. But nobody is willing to say he was bad, but instead that "it wasn't the elite season we're used to". So I'm just asking, why are we so wholly able to commit to the idea that Fournette was still bad last year as a receiver, but Kamara is just "not quite up to his normal standards"? Because he was playing on a torn MCL? Edited August 31, 2020 by Ray Reed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, pwny said: So I'm just asking, why are we so wholly able to commit to the idea that Fournette was still bad last year as a receiver, but Kamara is just "not quite up to his normal standards"? To add to my above comment - there's an expectation that Kamara is getting out and about in his routes. Teams gameplan for him, it's not too out of sorts to see a box S shadow Kamara all over, pre and post snap. Can you say the same about Fournette? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, ET80 said: 4 minutes ago, pwny said: I'm not asking for a comparison to his standard. Obviously it wasn't up to his standard from his first two years. If Fournette's season was bad, why is no one willing to say Kamara's season was bad? Not "not as good as he normally does," but bad. You don't need to find me articles or anything, you can just tell me Kamara was bad last year and I'll move on. But nobody is willing to say he was bad, but instead that "it wasn't the elite season we're used to". So I'm just asking, why are we so wholly able to commit to the idea that Fournette was still bad last year as a receiver, but Kamara is just "not quite up to his normal standards"? 3 minutes ago, ET80 said: I think most - if not all - are uniform in thinking Kamara wasn't good. Fournette was unexpected (which isn't good or bad... it's unexpected). Thanks. This is the first time in months that I've asked this question that someone has actually committed to the assessment instead of the double speak which is clearly an attempt at setting a double standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ray Reed said: Because he was playing on a torn MCL? Did the MCL injury make him bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.